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Rifle Scope Zero


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Poll: Rifle Scope Zero (65 member(s) have cast votes)

Select the option for your primary predator hunting rifle.

  1. 25 yards (2 votes [3.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.08%

  2. 50 yards (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. 100 yards (37 votes [56.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.92%

  4. 150 yards (3 votes [4.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.62%

  5. 200 yards (23 votes [35.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.38%

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#31 Yodel Dog

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 06:46 AM

Again MPBR is a term for trajectory...MPBR of 6" since the measurement would be +/-3"...not 6" total.

MPBR is not really a "term" for trajectory.M-- maximum PB - point blank = dead on aimingR -- range = distance Find the heighth of the kill zone on game, 4" on standing squirrels,10" on deer etc..Find the trajectory of your bullet.To use MPBR for the 10" deer: Aim DEAD ON.The 10" is divided by 2 giving 5" above point of aim, and 5" below.Using the trajectory chart, find the maximum distance where the trajectory has the bullet no more than 5" high nor more than 5" low(10" total).This maximum distance is MPBR for that bullet with that target(10" deer).If the maximum distance is 300yds:Sight in the rifle for this trajectory.Aim dead-on at the deer out to the MPBR of 300yds.The MPBR will be different for different targets with different bullet trajectories.

#32 Portagee_Shooter

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:30 AM

So has anyone decided to change the zero for their rifle after reading all this info?

Thanks to the comments here I'm planning to change my AR and Mini to +1" at 100yds. Thats why I keep coming back...lots of good info here. Thanks!
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#33 tawnoper

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:34 AM

To use MPBR for the 10" deer: Aim DEAD ON.The 10" is divided by 2 giving 5" above point of aim, and 5" below.Using the trajectory chart, find the maximum distance where the trajectory has the bullet no more than 5" high nor more than 5" low(10" total).This maximum distance is MPBR for that bullet with that target(10" deer).The MPBR will be different for different targets with different bullet trajectories.

Haha...What I said ...MPBR of 6" since the measurement would be +/-3"...not 6" total.What you said... To use MPBR for the 10" deer: Aim DEAD ON.The 10" is divided by 2 giving 5" above point of aim, and 5" below.Using the trajectory chart, find the maximum distance where the trajectory has the bullet no more than 5" high nor more than 5" low(10" total).Not sure what the difference is, or maybe I wasn't clear....I figured +/-3" could be understood by most anyone... apparently not.MPBR is an acronym!!!! And I know what it stands for. As you stated 4 or 5 times with your explanation on how MPBR works...IT IS BASED ON TRAJECTORY!!!!!!! Again, sorry for side tracking this thread. I'd sight your rifle in to what you feel confident using...based on REAL experience about 1" high at 100 works well.
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#34 Yodel Dog

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 07:59 AM

Haha...What I said ...MPBR of 6" since the measurement would be +/-3"...not 6" total.What you said... To use MPBR for the 10" deer: Aim DEAD ON.The 10" is divided by 2 giving 5" above point of aim, and 5" below.Using the trajectory chart, find the maximum distance where the trajectory has the bullet no more than 5" high nor more than 5" low(10" total).Not sure what the difference is, or maybe I wasn't clear....I figured +/-3" could be understood by most anyone... apparently not.MPBR is an acronym!!!! And I know what it stands for. As you stated 4 or 5 times with your explanation on how MPBR works...IT IS BASED ON TRAJECTORY!!!!!!! Again, sorry for side tracking this thread. I'd sight your rifle in to what you feel confident using...based on REAL experience about 1" high at 100 works well.

I hope you don't think I was dinging you, I'm not. Your explaination was a little unclear to me and I was trying to clarify. Your post was the clearest one in reference to MPBR so I used it to expand the topic. The conversation here is not just between you and I, but all the readers of this forum. The forum readers are/is/was the intended audience.While MPBR is "based" on trajectory, it is not a "term" for trajectory.

#35 Moe

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 08:39 AM

This conversation has given me a headache. lol I shoot 52 grain bullets out of my 22-250. I have little faith in charts and over the years I've zeroed the guns in at 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I've set targets out at different ranges to see where the rifle shoots at those distances. One thing I found is that when the gun is sighted in 1 1/2" high at 100 yards it's just about dead on at 200 yards but also dead on at 35 yards. When I got my Kimber with the 22" barrel I was a little concerned about trajectory since I knew I wasn't going to get the same velocity that I was getting out of my 24" barrel. My concerns were pretty much unfounded. The 22-250 is a flat shooting rifle and I really don't shoot at much over 200 yards but I have made shots well in excess of 300 yards. The range I shoot at has a 300 yard and 600 yard range and I have shot the rifle at 300 yards and I can't remember exactly where the point of impact was but it wasn't enough to miss a coyote.
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#36 tawnoper

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:20 AM

This conversation has given me a headache. lol

Me too! lol
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#37 ShooterJohn

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:28 AM

It depends on the gun I'm using. But most are set for dead on at 100 yards.

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#38 Moe

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 12:55 PM

That's because at your age you can't see any farther! :angry2:
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#39 ShooterJohn

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 02:46 PM

Actually I have great distance vision. Just don't ask me look at something close. :)

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#40 Desert Fox

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 06:02 PM

You might want to look at that wind drift again. I'd guess with a 10mph crosswind you'd be closer to 10-12" off at 300yds with the load mentioned.

I guess, I just gutshot that coyote, did I! Your right about the 10" wind deflection at 300 yards, my mistake! I was typing my response last night at almost bedtime and trying to recall data by memory, which was a big mistake on my part but, following through with what Yodel had said, the information generated by this thread are directed toward all the participants. What ever knowledge others have, has to be shared for the benefit of others. Any mistake or misinformation must be corrected and acknowledge. You are belittling Yodel response when all he was doing was to clarify your murky explanation regarding MPBR. I myself believed that you have no idea what MPBR is or what the concept means as applies to hunting . I'm going to discuss them later after I get back from dinner. DF
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#41 Desert Fox

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 10:53 PM

Again MPBR is a term for trajectory...the term might be relatively new but the concept aint. If you are sitting on a solid bench, shooting at known ranges, using wind flags etc...the techincal end of things rules. But this question was "how to zero a calling rifle" which obviously there are differences of opinion. I guess someone should set their rifle where they are comfortable.

Point Blank Range has been around since the invention of cannon. It's not nothing new as you perceived them to be. Maximum point blank range commonly applies to small arms like handguns and rifles. I believed the military use them too but has different terms for it. Hunters and shooters of different discipline can benefit by knowing their cartridge MPBR, and yes, even for calling rifles. For the hunters, MPBR can be tailored to the animal being hunted. 12 to 14" killing zone for bigger animal like elk, 8 to 10" for deer size games, 4 to 6" for coyotes and 3 to 4" for smaller critter. These are baseline number that can be adjusted to your specific needs and comfort level. Predator calling is a fast pace action type hunt that requires quick decision, and sometimes quick follow-up shot. As a matter of fact, zeroing a calling rifle using the MPBR method can really improved your odd in hitting your target.

While I respect your opinion; I hate to say it, but....1" high at a hundred IS MPBR with a smaller margin(MPBR is about 2.5" @200yds)

What the heck you've just said here!. For you and your rifle maybe, but not for everyone else.

Why someone would shoot a flat shooting rifle and not want to take advantage of the trajectory is baffling.

I couldn't say it any better. This is where you really can take advantage of zeroing your rifle using the MPBR method. Goodnight gentlemen! DF
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#42 Moe

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 05:53 AM

Poor ol' tawnoper. He ain't never going to kill no coyotes with his limited knowledge of where to zero his gun.Oh........wait.... :)
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#43 fakawee

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 09:21 PM

I look at it this way gents! It will depend on where you hunt and how long a shot you are comfortable at taking. Since most of my hunting is done in the open desert areas, I've zeroed my .223 in at 200yds. Anything inside of 275yds and I hold dead on the chest or whatever side presents itself. Most of my kills have been between 90-200yds out there. Now if I hunted areas that don't necessitate long shots, I'd zero in for 100yds.
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#44 Moe

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:31 AM

Not to get into the fray but even if I hunted an area where the majority of my shots were well under 100 yards, and they are, I would still sight my rifle the way I do. Every cartridge I shoot has a flat trajectory out to 250+ yards. Sighting it for the longer range gives me two zeros. One close and one far. Remember I said my 22-250 is zeroed first at 35 yards so a coyote around that range is going to be toast if I can get him in the crosshairs. The coyote at 100 yards will still be in trouble as 1"- 1 1/2" really isn't going to make much of a difference. The coyote at 200 to 300 yards is still in trouble. Yeah...I know that no matter where you sight the rifle it's going to have two zeros and actually with a flat shooting rifle that 1" high at 100 yards may be no big deal. But, jeez, fellers. I been doin' it since I was 19 and I just can't help it no more. Having a flat shooting varmint rifle and not taking full advantage of it's capabilities is puzzling to me. I can't remember which gun maker gave the instructions but they said that the 22-250 should be sighted dead on at 235 yards in order take full advantage of it's 400 yard range. That means putting the cross hairs where you want the bullet to go out to full range. I've never put that to the test and I'll admit it sounds a little far fetched but make it 325 yards instead of 400 and I'll buy it. I doubt that I'll be shooting much beyond that anyway. I really don't much care what you call it whatever it is you're talking about I'll take practical experience over a chart every time.
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#45 tawnoper

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:15 PM

Point Blank Range has been around since the invention of cannon. It's not nothing new as you perceived them to be.

LOL...Yeah, it's called trajectory lol. Aim the cannon a bit higher and we'll be on!!!PBR at it's finest lol.Maybe I've been missing out all these years...let me try out MPBR on my Swift.I'll punch in 3" MPBR on my pointblank system (per DF "smaller critter") cause I dont want to be over 1.5" high...okay the results.100yds 1.2" high, zero 234 and 300yds -3.2". What do you know, IT WORKED!!! And it's right where it's been for years but now I feel better knowing it was set with MPBR lol.True...it's not setup for those 350 yard shots but in all the years I've been calling and actually shooting coyotes I have shot a total of one (1) over 350 and maybe a handful at 300...I don't think I'm really missing out on not setting my rifle up for those very rare shots...in practical achievable ranges it's aim on coyote, squeeze trigger.Desert Fox, I can tell as long you have the internet and a ballistics program you are full of answers. Being that this is a predator hunting site and the question pertained to setting up a calling rifle, some rely on practical experience...others on theory. To me your opinion is very apparent. Yodel Dog...I wasn't trying to belittle you and if it came out that way I apologize. I just found it funny what you responded was, to me, basically exactly what I said. After reading it I can see it coming across a little belittling but that wasn't the intention.
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#46 Yodel Dog

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:03 PM

Yodel Dog...I wasn't trying to belittle you and if it came out that way I apologize. I just found it funny what you responded was, to me, basically exactly what I said. After reading it I can see it coming across a little belittling but that wasn't the intention.

I did not take it that way. I did feel that an error needed corrected. Just as you corrected DF in an earlier post, not out of ill will, just to have the correct information posted. As this forum is used for learning, the teachers must present correct information. It is too easy to miss-speak or miss-type, a correction on posted information is generally welcomed by all.

#47 Yodel Dog

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:38 PM

A post of mine may have been mis-interpreted. The original post in this thread said "Curious to hear what the others on here have their rifle set at." While some members posted what their rifle was sighted in at, others elaborated as to cartridge, bullets, b.c.,velocity etc.. I generally try keep my posts somewhat generic unless specific information in needed or required. I do not know what cartridge, bullet, velocity, terrain, vegetation, daytime, nighttime, weather, target combination is at hand.MPBR is specific by meaning, but when asked as a generic question has as many answers as there are bullets, velocities and targets. My attempt with my post about MPBR was to explain how MPBR is calculated.I myself find MPBR very useful in follow-up shots. It is not uncommon to call in several coyotes at one time. When using a bolt gun in open country, it gets harder to judge range when your mag box is getting empty and your on your 3rd or 4th target, especially when they just seem to keep finding more gears.

#48 Desert Fox

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:25 PM

Desert Fox, I can tell as long you have the internet and a ballistics program you are full of answers. Being that this is a predator hunting site and the question pertained to setting up a calling rifle, some rely on practical experience...others on theory. To me your opinion is very apparent.

Well, whatever opinion you have of me keep, it to yourself because you don't know jack.... I know only a handful guys in here that hunt, and shoot with me. They know who I'am, what I have, and what I can do with them.... and that's good enough.

I myself find MPBR very useful in follow-up shots. It is not uncommon to call in several coyotes at one time. When using a bolt gun in open country, it gets harder to judge range when your mag box is getting empty and your on your 3rd or 4th target, especially when they just seem to keep finding more gears.

Well said Yodel. Like you, I found MPBR to be very effective. This is the reason why I brought it up in the first place, as my response to Darren's post. I discovered the effectiveness of sighting my rifle base on my cartridge MPBR many years ago, when I was shooting squirrels and rabbits at long range. This was pre-rangefinder days. Back then, I zeroed my rifle half an inch at 100 yards, and my missed to hit ratio is pretty high, when shooting beyond 200 yards. I was either too high or too low on my shots. After I rezeroed my rifle, using MPBR, my missed to hit ratio was cut almost in half. These days, when deer hunting, I set my rifle zero to it's MPBR when stalking or just walking, just in case I need to make a quick shot. MPBR work! Tailor it to the animal you are hunting and it"s very effective, from the tip of your rifle muzzle all the way to the distance where the bullet touches the lower line of the imaginary sphere, whatever diameter that might be.
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#49 Yodel Dog

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:32 PM

MPBR works! Tailor it to the animal you are hunting and it's very effective, from the tip of your rifle muzzle all the way to the distance where the bullet touches the lower line of the imaginary sphere, whatever diameter that might be.

Well said! :D

#50 tawnoper

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:24 AM

As this forum is used for learning, the teachers must present correct information. It is too easy to miss-speak or miss-type, a correction on posted information is generally welcomed by all.

Yodel Dog, I agree with you. While I don’t believe the information I posted was incorrect...it wasn't very well detailed either and obviously could/did confuse someone who maybe doesn't understand the concept too well or hasn’t had much actual predator hunting experience under their belt. I have a little time and will try to detail a bit more; maybe it will help someone out. Hopefully so. I also found it interesting the first answer you recommended before the fray was 1" high at a 100 lol.MPBR is the furthest distance you can zero your rifle for, at which your bullet is never above or below your line of sight by more than a certain amount. That amount could be whatever you choose but the intention is to take advantage of you're rifles trajectory for your target. Whether that is 3", 6" or 12", it all works the same...it takes advantage of that particular rifles trajectory within the area you choose. Now here’s the rub…Obviously, a coyote is closer to 6” than 3”, if you choose 6" over 3" it will give you a lot more range and theoretically should work, but as I stated before, from actual field experience I find the bigger numbers such as 6" puts the POI at it's highest point right where I don’t want it…right where I'd expect to get a lot of shot opportunities, 3” high right about on a 125-130yd shot. Since experience has taught me that the vast majority of shots I get while calling predators are in that range and closer, I believe a shooter utilizing a standard 6” MPBR and aiming center mass at those ranges will be shooting over lots of coyotes, or just catching the tops (which if you want to keep the fur would result in a lot of sewing, those high fringe shots are messy). At those ranges, the ranges that see all the action, I want my rifle hitting closer to the crosshairs so I can place the bullet where I want to as opposed to just hitting the coyote in the high end of the selected 6” area…I’ll settle for just hitting the coyote on those rare 300 yarders.As I already stated, 1" high at 100 yards is using MPBR for the cartridge, distance and trajectory height I am interested in hunting, it's just using a much smaller denominator to determine the MPBR, therefore the MPBR is reduced. With most flat shooting bolt action centerfire cartridges that are favored for predator calling with a scope mounted 1.5” over the bore you’ll find when you use a MPBR of 2.5” – 3.0”, the 100yd zero will be about 1-1.5” high at a 100. To setup the MPBR there are other important factors that the shooter needs to know such as ballistic coefficient, actual velocity and scope height over bore, even temperature and altitude come into play. In truth, and as I already stated, in the distances a predator hunter will be doing his vast majority of shooting these figures don’t really even come into play (my opinion)…but they definitely come into play as the range increases. I tend to use a slightly modified version of MPBR for coyote hunting. Using the fact that MPBR is the furthest distance you can zero your rifle for, at which your bullet is never above or below your line of sight by more than a certain amount, I set mine so the height is never above 1.5” and the drop is within 3” so it’s a MPBR of 4.5” roughly. In essence, my line of sight is higher toward the top of the 4.5” instead of evenly distributed between top and bottom. I never saw a benefit to the high end of MPBR for coyote hunting but the lower end helps connect on those rare 250-300 yard shots. For my Swift my MPBR is 300 yards…zero at 235, 1.2” high at 100 and about 3” low at 300. My .223 MPBR is around 250; zero at 190, about 1.2” at 100 and 3”low at 250. At these setting it allows me to place the bullet pretty well on the coyote for the vast majority of shots I get. I’m still using MPBR; the bullet is still within my chosen range of trajectory, it’s just not divided evenly per most MPBR calculators. Since it is not divided evenly, it will slightly decrease the MPBR...but is much closer to the crosshairs on the vast majority of shots. I still find wind and range estimation to be more of a problem on those waaaay out there shots but for just setting the POI, this works for me.
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#51 Yodel Dog

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:25 PM

"I also found it interesting the first answer you recommended before the fray was 1" high at a 100 lol."Not recommended, just answered the question."Now here's the rub…Obviously, a coyote is closer to 6" than 3", ... I believe a shooter utilizing a standard 6" MPBR and aiming center mass at those ranges will be shooting over lots of coyotes, or just catching the tops..."Either poor control of the rifle by the shooter or itty-bitty coyotes. Obviously MPBR is incorrect/incompatable with this combination of shooter/bullet/target."...I want my rifle hitting closer to the crosshairs so I can place the bullet where I want to..."Then you have chosen not to use MPBR. This does not mean that MPBR is a fallacy. "...rare 300 yarders."Depends on where and how you hunt."With most flat shooting bolt action centerfire cartridges that are favored for predator calling... In truth, and as I already stated, in the distances a predator hunter will be doing his vast majority of shooting these figures don't really even come into play (my opinion)…but they definitely come into play as the range increases."An endorsement for MPBR."I'm still using MPBR; the bullet is still within my chosen range of trajectory..."An endorsement for MPBR."I still find...range estimation to be more of a problem on those waaaay out there shots..."Another endorsement for MPBR.I have kept my posts generic and tried to present facts only. The reader can use the information presented, insert their own data and use MPBR.

#52 dabob

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 05:13 AM

I agree with tawnoper. My coyote rifles shoot about 1/2" to 1" high at 100 yards. At least 90% of the coyotes I shoot are under 200 yards away. This has worked good for me for many years.
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#53 Moe

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 05:53 AM

"and obviously could/did confuse someone who.................... hasn’t had much actual predator hunting experience under their belt."

And therein lies the rub..........
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#54 Yodel Dog

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Posted 17 September 2008 - 08:25 AM

And therein lies the rub..........

Hi Moe, thanks for watching my back. But no, I don't believe tawnoper was trying to ding me. We're just discussing the pro's and con's of two shooting styles. For tawnoper to pretend that he knows my background and experience would be blatantly obvious and silly, and I'm sure he's not.Looking at the number of hits on this thread, people are either really bored or want to learn. We both shoot the 220 Swift, I like seeing the data and experience that another shooter with this cartridge.

#55 stinkyfindings

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 06:31 PM

The past several shots I have had at coyotes have been from 20-50 yards with none of 75 yards (the last 4 coyotes I called in have been like this). Part of it is hunting new areas and it is thicker brush. However, my standard has been 100 yard zero. Been rethinking of dropping it to 50 yards because of what has happened. Been holding lower and lower on the dog, but a lot of shots right over the back of the dog. Very aggravating to call them in that close and not drop the dog! Curious to hear what the others on here have their rifle set at. Darren

the way i set my scope up on a rifle (new or used is first I make sure the cross hairs are levle in mount horizontaly thenI install the screws with loctite for small screws (the color of this is purple Beceause if you shoot alot your mounts cancome loose I do the mount to the gun and rings to. then I take a small screw driver and tap in on the top scope cap about 20 times this settles the cross hairs so the scope doesn't lose its zero while riding in the truck etc. tnen depending on the cal. I set 30 cal 1.5 ins high at 100 yds so its zero on at 200 for 24 cal its 1 in high at 100 yds so its zero on at 200 hope this helps
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#56 sangerpb

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 07:45 PM

I always set the 223 to 200 yards, the 17 and 22 to 100 yards

#57 300wsm

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Posted 26 September 2008 - 07:10 PM

My primary yote guns are .243 W/75 gr. V-MAX, Zeroed at 200 yds it drops about 5.5 in. at 300 yds, and -16.0 in at 400 yds. and -33.5 in at 500 yds. ,this works for me. I did make a kill at 285 yds. last year using these stats. Most of my yote shots are under 150 yds. so the long range stuff is not real common. ,,,300wsm

#58 vertical_edge_800

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 10:00 AM

i dont think ive ever shot at a coyote over 200 yards or so... i usually dont even see them untill they are closer. ive yet to hunt in cali but it may be different here.

#59 Old timer

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 10:19 AM

I zero my .243 at 200 yards shoting an 85 grain serria spizer about an inch high at 100 and about 11/2 at 300 hundred yards
Without hunters there wouldn't be much of an environment to protect!!Conservation of Wild Life Through the Taking of Predators by Sportsmen United we stand

#60 Panoche_Walker

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:48 AM

Ok, who voted 25?

I've gone back and forth on this, but I was the 2nd to vote 25. There is a reason, and I wanted to find out if anyone else heard/used this trick(like maybe the first person to vote 25?). Now, I don't actually hunt predators, so maybe I shouldn't have voted at all, but I took it in the spirit of general hunting.If you zero your rifle at 25 yards, say a 30-06 (180 gr bullet, 2700 fps muzzle) you'll find that you're close to having used a MPBR for a kill radius of 2.5in. (which ends up having an effective range of 232 yards). If I was shooting a 25-06 with a 100gr bullet at 3100 fps, then I'm close to having the rifle set up for MPBR, (but I'd do better with a zero at 30 yards). Now, granted, I can do better if I've got a ballistic calculator, but if I had to re-set a rifle zero in the field, this seems like a reasonable thing to have in your bag of tricks. It also makes wind a much smaller player in setting the zero, and the smaller groups I get at 25 yards make me happier even though I know I should multiply the group size by 4 to translate them to 100yds. The down side is that the range I shoot at doesn't allow centerfire rifles on the short range side(I think they call it the pistol range, but I think of it as the sighting in range), so I end up setting my zeros at 100 yards. I did set zeros on the 25 yard range until I found out that this was not appreciated. Now I set mine at 2" high at 100 yards, but I'd be back at the 25 yard side in a heartbeat if I could. (It also makes boresighting much simpler since missing the paper at 25 yards is a lot harder...)This isn't something I came up with on my own, it was something I heard about back where I grew up. What I'm wondering is if anyone else heard of this method?




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