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#1 gmoney

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Posted 12 May 2008 - 10:10 PM

Ya this should be a pretty broad discussion. I want some oppinions on optics. first off getting older I dont see as sharp as I used to. With that being said I set off to find a scope for the trusty -06. I have owned some burris and mostly other cheapies, simmons and bushnell. My Range partner has always told me, when it comes to optics you can cry about it once and or cry a little every time you use it. With that being said I set off for a new scope and decided the budget would not dictate choice of optics. I picked the top few I thought about Burris, zuess, swarovski, nikon and leupold. I settled on a leupold with the b&c reticle. Yes this scope cost me about a g when it was all said and done, it did leave me with a pleasant surprise though. After playing around with the scope I could immediately tell the optics were hands down better than anything else I have ever owned. I did comparison on my other scopes just by looking through them and the simmons and all my bushnells are now headed towards the trash cans, clarity and light gathering at higher magnifications really stinks.. compared to my burris' , they looked pretty good, but not quite as good.. So I would like some input on scopes from people who have had the opportunity to really look through and use both ends of the spectrum for optics. I personally have decidded that the inexpensive scopes are just that, and the expensive ones not matter how painful they are tro buy, so far have exceeded my expectations as far as opitc quality. Tell me what you think and why I really want to understand optics a little betterps does anyone here have any experience with the new vx-7 scopes? thanks Brandon

#2 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 07:31 AM

I'm gonna reply (even though I don't own any expensive scopes). I find it too painful to spend more than $200 on a scope. My firearm budget is limited (who's isn't) so i would rather buy 2-3 rifles rather than 1 scope. I also haven't been on any Great hunts where I couldn't see due to fog, poor light etc. When and if I get into some Once in a lifetime hunt, I will probably get a Leupold (but most likely somewhere in the $500 range). I have had good success with the "Cheap but still good" scopes. At least that's what I call them. I like the Simmons Whitetail Classics and Bushnell Browning scopes. They can be had for right around $100 and they have worked perfectly for my squirrel, rabbit and now Coyote hunting (no remarks from the peanut gallery about me missing that Yote, it wasn't because of the scope). Just my :rolleyes: I have heard over and over to spend the same $$ on a scope as I did on the rifle, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I have no doubt that the high priced scopes are worth it and the folks saying to spend the $$ are right, but mine are good enough for me. It's like comparing cars....a Chevy will get me from point A to B but a Mercedes will get you there faster and in comfort (and maybe be more reliable). :welcomeani:
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#3 Jeff

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 07:39 AM

I'm with Wannakill on this. I think the most expensive scope I own is my Buckmaster with BDC reticle. I own a Simmons (which I WILL replace) and a bunch of others from Mueller and Nikon mostly. I love the Buckmaster, especially for the price. Like was said above, I've never used these scopes anywhere they didn't perform. For $1000, I'd rather buy a gun or two - or finish the ones that need finishing.
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#4 Camoghost

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:08 AM

All the scopes I own except for 2 are Leopold. The other 2 scopes are a Nikon with BDC for my Omega and a Cabela's for my .17HMR (I got for a gift) VERY NICE SCOPE I might add. I myself started buying stuff cheap because I didn't always have the money for nice stuff. Over the years I have replaced to "cheapies" with good optics. I have to say pound for pound in everyway you can rate an optic and for the price, Leopold is my favorite. Never gets knocked off zero, tuff as hell and is crystal clear. My grandfather once told me "a gun is only as good as its optics". Now that I am able to spend a little more on toys and buy nice rifles, why would I put a cheap optic on it? Just the way I feel..

#5 woodog

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:28 AM

Just my :flag: I have heard over and over to spend the same $$ on a scope as I did on the rifle, but I just can't bring myself to do it. I have no doubt that the high priced scopes are worth it and the folks saying to spend the $$ are right, but mine are good enough for me. It's like comparing cars....a Chevy will get me from point A to B but a Mercedes will get you there faster and in comfort (and maybe be more reliable). :)

Well, but . . . :welcomeani: for what you spent on your black gun you could have bought your Tikka T3 Lite .243 AND and a good scope AND had $$$ left over to buy beer for everyone coming to the Bakersfield Gathering! :drinks: Woodog :good:
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#6 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 10:07 AM

Since you have the EXACT same rifle as me (except for the $200 Timney trigger you put on yours) all I can say is ....... Ditto. :drinks: :flag: :welcomeani:
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#7 woodog

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:18 PM

Ain't that the truth. Why did we do that? :WTF_1:
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#8 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:27 PM

I guess it's because we can. :welcomeani: I for one had to have one as soon as I heard about the Bullet Button's. Now it may just sit in my safe as a WTSHTF gun. Though I heard a good arguement the other day for when the LEO say's "if it's a non-removable magazine, why do you have those other mags with you?" ...... You just say "They are spare parts."I also hope to take a trip up to Oregon this Summer to visit family. If I get to go, I plan to take my Black (I mean Tan) gun as well as a few others. It will be nice to be in a free State and just let the lead fly. :drinks:
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#9 fiveflat

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 12:31 PM

Am I sensing some buyer's remorse on your behalf? (both of you)
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#10 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 01:10 PM

Am I sensing some buyer's remorse on your behalf? (both of you)

Haha, I think Steve had Buyers remorse before he bought. :welcomeani: I on the other hand think my AR is awesome and money well spent. My only issue with it is I am scared of getting busted with it (even though I know it's legal) and having them confiscate it and do who know's what to me in the way of fines/jail etc. I may end up fine when all is said and done, and get my guns back etc. but I'm just not sure I want to be the poster boy that has to go through all of that to prove a point. So, I may just leave my AR in the safe for now until something concrete has come out on the whole Bullet Button thing. It's hard enough to find places to hunt, but adding what other people PERCEIVE as an "Evil Assault Rifle" to the mix just makes it worse.Woodog also thinks my groups aren't that great from my AR (and is most likely expecting similar results from his). I think my AR could shoot better groups with some more ammo testing, a better trigger and more trigger time by me (most likely the larger groups are my fault). But, i am happy with the way it shoots for a Lightweight Coyote Wounder/Scarer (you guys know what I'm referring to). ;)Given the closeness both Coyotes have been so far, I will be taking my shotgun with me on the next Coyote outing. I will also have my Tikka .243 dialed in by then and I will have that in the Jeep as well for the longer range stuff.Sorry, not trying to hi-jack this thread.
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#11 woodog

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

Am I sensing some buyer's remorse on your behalf? (both of you)

Well mine is all together except for the winter trigger guard and the punches i needed arrived from MidwayUSA yesterday so that should be done tonight. I'll take it out the weekend after next and give it a try. Got the scope mounted in Millet 1" high rings Sunday and the height is perfect,but too high to use my bore sighting tools. I'm not sure why I'm not more excited about this thing and hope that will change after I fire it. I guess part of my concern is being hassled by a LEO who doesn't understand "California legal". A stupid warden could sure screw up an otherwise great day of hunting. I still have the new Beeman Goldfinger to try too and I am a little excited about that. :welcomeani: Woodog
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#12 Pogo

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 03:23 PM

The only 'cheap' scope I've ever been happy with is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5x20 50mm job. I picked it up at Midway a while back, and for $99 it is one hell of a scope. It is perfect for my carry gun (the one that gets carried in the pickup all the time) and it is also usually the one I take calling. Last winter I fell off of a rock ridge onto it, it was still zeroed and minus the dings in the finish it still works perfect. I'd feel really bad treating a Loopy the way I do that scope and gun. All the other cheap scopes I've had are just cheap. They work on a .22 or something until you get something better, but really aren't that great. I keep hearing good things about Mueller, I'm trying one out on my .17. I just haven't yet been able to defile my CZ by putting anything less than a Leopold on it. It is still wearing my benchrest 'test' scope, a Leopold 24x. Really I just haven't had the time to to put a new scope on it and get it sighted in. To busy killing squirrels :closedeyes:
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#13 204destroyer

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 05:24 PM

I have owned just about every type of scope out there and as of right now I have 9 rifles and they all have leupolds except for my 204 which sports a BSA. But I must confess just today I went and purchased a Burris, the main reason for this scope was I liked the 5 to 20 range of power plus the 44mm objective. The scope is crystal clear and seems to be great. I will know more when I strap it on the 300 ultra mag next week and see if it can stand all the wrinkles. If money talks it wasnt cheap enough to give to many problems, and it does have a lifetime warranty, so we will see. :closedeyes:

#14 gmoney

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 05:57 PM

well my leupold ext varminter just showed up and I am comparing it to my simmons and the difference is UNREAL the clarity is just awesome. The big thing I think I see is that a scope with premium optics needs less magnification to clearly see and hit target than my same 6.5-20 simmons. This is just what I am feelin is the difference between the two. So the big question I have is can someone that has owned and hunted with less expensive scopes and also hi dollar scopes can tell me which scope they would rather use. I think I have decided for myself, but I am looking for 2 cents on the dealBrandon

#15 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 06:53 PM

Is your 6.5-20 Simmons the Whitetail Classic?
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#16 fiveflat

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:01 PM

My only issue with it is I am scared of getting busted with it (even though I know it's legal)

Yup, that's why I made mine look as "hunter friendly" as possible. I was supposed to take it out last weekend for it's virgin shot but this is a busy time of year for me breaking horses, showing, etc.Any rate - back to the main topic of discussion... I'm staying out of this one. :closedeyes: LMAOI made my first el cheapo purchase a few weeks ago, got all kinds of hell for and never even shot my rifle with it. went through one other that my wife made me return because it didn't match like it should... (sheesh - women and their matching accessories) and I wound up with a Leupold 4-12X40. So now I have all Leupold on my centerfires and Bushnell Legends on my rimfires. Hrm - seeing a pattern here?
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#17 BigJim

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:15 PM

gmoneyLike wannakill I can not see spending more for the scope than I did for the rifle. Since my budget is also small I have had good luck with the low end scopes. Today I just received my Barska 6-24x42 MIL scope from Sportsmans Guide. It cost $44.95 plus $9.65 for shipping. It is going on my Bushmaster Varminteer (yes it cost me $1200.00 for the rifle and it took 4 months for me to pay for it.) This is the most I have spent on a rifle and is not the general rule, most are SALE rifles between $300 and $600.Having said this, it would be nice to have a scope that could be used to see the rings of Jupiter. But my shooting is all within 100 to 300 yards in good weather between 8 AM and 5 PM from bench or shooting sticks. If I was to shoot comp I would go out and spend the $500 or $600 necessary for that type of shooting.I can do 1/2 MOA with the low end scopes and that is good for me, I don't need 1/4 or 1/10 MOA needed to win comps.Your type of shooting will determine what scope and how much you need to spend. You will not go wrong with a low end scope (Barska, NcStar, Guide Gear, Cabelas) I own each and they are fine. Remember I can buy 10 scopes for the price of one Nikon, Bushnell, Swarkski or Leopold. And if I should break it I am not out $500.00.Good ShootingBigJim

#18 gmoney

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 08:30 PM

it is a simmons 6.5-20 wide angle 44 mag with turrets. I paid maybe a couple hundo for it in 96 I notice they do not offer the scope just like that anymore. I feel that the POI does occsionally shift on this scope when used on the bench where it is controlled environment so the shots cannot be claimed as fliers. I will find out soon with the new scope on there if it is the gun or it was the scope. BTW the gun is an older m70 223 hv with an aluminum bedding block. So back to the big question has anyone had the experience of using the two different grade scopes in similar conditons, if so what kind of differences can you seeBrandon

#19 BigJim

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 09:40 PM

BrandonThe only time I had that happen was with a 270 and after about 15 shots POI was changing. When I went to change scopes I found that the bases had loosened up. I now locktite then. It shouldn't happen with a 223 but you can never tell.Jim

#20 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 07:22 AM

it is a simmons 6.5-20 wide angle 44 mag with turrets.

Hmmm. I also have a Simmons 44mag and I think it's a pretty nice scope especially for the $120 I paid for it. As for the POI being off, the 44mag is one of the best scopes Simmons has ever made. I would guess you either got a bad one, or something else is causing the change in POI. I wouldn't for one second though think it would match a $1000 Leupold. I would venture to say any scope in the $500+ range is going to be much better than the "Pretty damn good for the price" $100-150 scopes. I would compare my "Pretty damn good for the price" $100-150 scopes to other scopes costing up to $300. A for instance is the Bushnell Browning that I recently bought for $129. It is made to the same specs as the Elite 3200 and since it has been discontinued, they are blowing them out at almost 50% the price of a 3200. The Elite 3200 is considered a nice Entry Level scope.On the other hand there are tons of crappy scopes out there in the $50-150 range that I wouldn't even consider using. BSA comes to mind. I bought one a long time ago and it lasted about 15 minutes before I took it off and got something else.Good luck with your Leupy, I'm sure you will love it.
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#21 Brant

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 12:08 PM

I am right there with you on eyesight and cost of good scopes. I am also searching for the best moderately priced scope. I have just strayed from Leupolds because of cost to a Swift for target shooting for the first time. I honestly could not tell the difference in clarity or brightness from my Vx-III 6.5-20 and a 6-24 50MM Swift at the same mag when I tried someone elses at the range for several groups. I spent a long time comparing them but again maybe it is just my bad eyes. I'll let you know when it arrives gets tested more thoroughly on my WV SS 22-250. I actually ordered up the 678M for $234 at eabco.com. I am sure there must be a difference besides just Leupolds great customer service for roughly $400 difference. I own primarily Vx-III Leupolds, but also some Bushnells, a Burris, a Nikon, a few BSAs on 22s, and a Tasco. I have had problems with the Burris scopes and several Bushnells. The Burris were manufacturing/QA errors but the Bushnells broke and they were both Banners. Like you said, the lower end scopes tend to have clarity and brightness issues especially at the higher magnifications and edges and my eyes really struggle. http://www.swift-spo...hunting/SRP678MBrant

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#22 Camoghost

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 12:41 PM

And this is why Traders Joes sells alot of 2 buck chuck wine...

#23 Fjold

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 12:47 PM

The definition of high dollar and low dollar varies with everyone's point of view.I like my Leupies and can see a difference in the higher end Swarovski's. The Weavers in the V16 and V24, you can definately see the edge distortion at the higher magnifications pretty easily. But the lower (not low) dollar $200-$300 scope that have impressed me the most wih the best optics (to my eyes) for the price is the Burris Fullfield II scopes.
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#24 A17Shooter

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 08:16 PM

Didn't see anyone talk about the quality or consistency of adjustments. I like to be able to click in an adjustment for range and have it work. Then move the adjustments back to the zero point and be back to zero. That is one of the things that less expensive scopes don't do well. With that comes the ability to move a specified number of clicks and get a known amount of movement of the point of impact. My old Simmons that is used on Contenders gets zero'd and then is never moved, unless it needs to be zeroed again. The amount of movement you'll get from the adjustments is just not predictable. Usually you do get better adjustment tracking from the better quality scopes.

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#25 gmoney

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 08:41 PM

that is a good point 17 so I just clicked my new one and it feels like my snapon ratchets, hmm I think I just made a good analogy....

#26 fiveflat

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:05 PM

And this is why Traders Joes sells alot of 2 buck chuck wine...

I know what a lot of people think of Bronco's Charles Shaw, but every time I see someone comment about I just have to point this out. I will admit, my wife and I use it as our 'table' wine but this speaks for itself.

At the 28th Annual International Eastern Wine Competition, Shaw's 2002 Shiraz received the double gold medal, besting the roughly 2,300 other wines in the competition.Shaw's 2005 California chardonnay was judged Best Chardonnay from California at the Commercial Wine Competition of the 2007 California Exposition and State Fair. The chardonnay received 98 points, a double gold, with accolades of Best of California and Best of Class.

(sorry to go off topic)
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#27 DEERSLAM

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:57 PM

You get what you pay for when buying glass for your rifles. I will not put cheap glass on my huntin rifles...PERIOD! Most of my rifles are for big game huntin and I spend a lot of money and time on my hunts and will always use the very best gear I can afford. All of my rifles wear nothing less than Leupolds, which in my opinion are great scopes with the best customer service. I can't see someone spending a $1000 or more on a rifle and puttin a $159 scope on it. You and your rifle can only shoot what you can see and I can't see driving 100's if not 1000's of miles to have your scope fail. There are too many variables in huntin that we can not control. One thing I can control is my gear and I will always use the best I can or in some cases can't afford. My .02
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#28 bzzrd feedr

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 10:08 PM

I know what a lot of people think of Bronco's Charles Shaw, but every time I see someone comment about I just have to point this out. I will admit, my wife and I use it as our 'table' wine but this speaks for itself.(sorry to go off topic)

I know some very "In the Know" people in the wine industry. They laugh at Bronco's gold medals you mention. Apparently the source of the wine was not closely tracked. It should have been randomly taken off shelves but was provided direct from the winery. Fox in the hen house. Back on subject on scopes. I've got Swarovski's, Leupolds, Nikon Buckmasters, and Burris scopes. Plus a few Bushies and Simmons. My old eyes like the best glass however the Nikon Buckmaster are darn easy on the eye and alot of bang for the buck.
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#29 Camoghost

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 07:11 AM

You get what you pay for when buying glass for your rifles. I will not put cheap glass on my huntin rifles...PERIOD! Most of my rifles are for big game huntin and I spend a lot of money and time on my hunts and will always use the very best gear I can afford. All of my rifles wear nothing less than Leupolds, which in my opinion are great scopes with the best customer service. I can't see someone spending a $1000 or more on a rifle and puttin a $159 scope on it. You and your rifle can only shoot what you can see and I can't see driving 100's if not 1000's of miles to have your scope fail. There are too many variables in huntin that we can not control. One thing I can control is my gear and I will always use the best I can or in some cases can't afford. My .02

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#30 fakawee

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  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spring Valley/San Diego County
  • Interests:4Wheeling, Hunting, Target Shooting, Fishing, Camping, Kayaking and Glassing the countryside.

Posted 15 May 2008 - 09:14 PM

Big Jim, how long have you had your Bushmaster Varminter? I wanted to buy the full camo Varminter but none of the gun shops down here can get one in California! They all told me it's because the mag is removable.
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. Mark Twain




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