20 replies to this topic

[fiveflat]

I googled the 22-250 a bit and found that the 250 stands for the .250savage that it's necked down from. So if that's the case, what is the .223 necked down from? How do both of those differ from the .220 swift? They all are necked down and have shoulders - (just different angled perhaps?) There are so many .22 rounds out there I'm having a tough time keeping up with it all.This is NOT a .223 vs. 22-250 vs. .220swift (which is better) thread. I'm just trying to learn about the cartridges and how they differ.

[A17Shooter]

Just working from memory here. Remington has a long history of working with cartridges that share a common case head size with the 222 Remington. Following their development of the triple deuce, came the 222 Magnum, which was longer and had greater powder capacity. Then with a step in the opposite direction, the 221 Fireball was developed for the XP-100 pistol. We don't want to forget the 17 Remington, also with the same case head dimensions. About this time the AR-15 & M-16 were being developed and Remington obliged with the 223 Remington/5.56 NATO. The latest in this line of cartridges, sharing the case head dimensions of the 222 Remington, is the 17 Remington Fireball. There will be a pop quiz tomorrow morning, I hope you have taken notes. Opps, reverted to my Navy instructor days.As I recall the 220 Swift is a wildcatted 7 MM Mauser. Bigger, faster & burns more barrels.

[fiveflat]

Interesting. So all those cartridges share the same case head (except the .220 swift)?So how does the case head size of a 22-250 compare to a .223?How about cartridge length?

[Rimrock]

The case head of the .223 is .378 and the case length is 1.760. Case head of the 22-250 is .473 and the case length is 1.912.

[Moe]

To my knowledge the 222 was developed by Remington to compete with the 22 Hornet. When the military wanted a smaller cartridge Remington's first offer was the 222 Magnum. Military said make it smaller but keep the 222 mag velocities. Remington offered the 223 and the military accepted it even though the 222 mag was a better designed cartridge and performed up to the military's criteria.I don't know the origin of the 220 Swift but I do know that it takes a different shell holder than the '06 or the 22-250. Yes, the 22-250 is just that. The 250 Savage necked down to .224. Like the 270 and the 25-06 are necked down from the 30-06. When I got my first 22-250 there was no brass available and factory ammo was hard to come by so I got 250 Savage brass and resized the neck which worked perfectly. The first Remington XP100 pistols were chambered for the 222. Very hard to find one but they're out there.

[Yodel Dog]

The .220 Swift's parent case is the 6mm Lee Navy

[A17Shooter]

The 22-250 shares case head dimensions with the 30-06 & family, 308 & family, 45 ACP & family, 284 & family. There are three major case head families from the old days, the small 222 size, the large, 30-06 size & the standard magnums. There are also lots of exceptions, such as hornet, 30 Carbine, 30-30 & family and the Carcano's.There are lots of domensioned drawings of cartridges in the various loading manuals, such as Sierra & Hornady.

The .220 Swift's parent case is the 6mm Lee Navy

That seems to trigger my fuzzy memory and the 220 case size doesn't match the 7 MM Mauser so Yodel must be correct. Sierra has dropped the 6 MM Lee from it's loading manual.

[Fjold]

When rumors first came out that Winchester was going to come out with a high power 22 caliber cartridge back in the early 1930's, all the gun writers and widcatters thought that it would be the 22 on the 250-3000 Savage case (22.250). So when Winchester introduced the 220 Swift based on the 6mm Lee Navy case a bunch of people got their panties in a knot over it. Gun writers started out saying that it was horribly overbored and that it would eat barrels in 100 rounds, etc. mostly because they all had the already popular 22- 250-3000 Savage wildcats around and the Swift just trounced it head to head. The original Swift load was a 50 grain bullet at 4,000 fps but that was found to be to hot so Winchester switched to a 40 grain bullet just to get the magical 4,000 fps. BTW the 250-3000 Savage was named that because it was the first commercially made cartridge to break the 3000 fps barrier.

[clampdaddy]

The .220 Swift's parent case is the 6mm Lee Navy

Yep, that's where that semi-rim comes from.

[ehd]

cmon guys, which is better ,22-250 or the swift ?

[Yodel Dog]

Troublemaker!!But to answer the question, "Why the .220 Swift of course!".

[hawkeye80863]

I googled the 22-250 a bit and found that the 250 stands for the .250savage that it's necked down from. So if that's the case, what is the .223 necked down from? How do both of those differ from the .220 swift? They all are necked down and have shoulders - (just different angled perhaps?) There are so many .22 rounds out there I'm having a tough time keeping up with it all.This is NOT a .223 vs. 22-250 vs. .220swift (which is better) thread. I'm just trying to learn about the cartridges and how they differ.

To put it more simply a case for any one cartridge is either design and manufactured from the ground up or it uses a parent case and modifies it is some way. Necking up or down refers to the changing the size of the neck. Examples of parent case vs modified: 30-06 necked down and lengthened to create 270 Winchester, 284 Winchester necked down to create 6.5x284, 308 Winchester necked up to create the 358 Winchester or down to create the 7-08, 260 Remington or 243 Winchester. The list goes on and on. As others have explained in various ways these are 3 different .224 caliber rounds built off different parent cases. Each case has different specifications and different internal capacity (how much powder it holds) as well as different working pressures (basically the pressure at which it is safe to shoot, reloading manuals provide reloading data with in the safe operating pressures). Hope that helps.

[Yodel Dog]

...30-06 necked down and lengthened to create 270 Winchester...

I think the parent cartridge of the 270win is the .30-03, predecessor of the .30-06.

[hawkeye80863]

I think the parent cartridge of the 270win is the .30-03, predecessor of the .30-06.

I thought the 30-03 to 30-06 was just a change from 220grn round nose to 150grn spitzer, but that the case never changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Yodel Dog]

I thought the 30-03 to 30-06 was just a change from 220grn round nose to 150grn spitzer, but that the case never changed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're making me work. I don't have all of my books at hand though.The .270win case has a longer OAL than the .30-06 to prevent it from firing in an '06."The .30-03 was shortened slightly (.07 inches in the neck), the powder was reformulated to burn cooler, and the bullet was changed to a 150 grain (9.7 g) spitzer bullet, creating the .30-06 cartridge."Data from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-03

[hawkeye80863]

Nice research. Sorry for the extra trouble.

[Yodel Dog]

Sorry for the extra trouble.

I was just joking, some of this research is fun.

[peeker seeker]

If you want to know all about fire arms, the reloading manuals are a great place to start. A good starting place in finding the right fire arm for the animal or target or just plinking. Lots of history and facts in them. I can just thump through them for hours.

[harry carey]

220 swift developed by WOTKYNS .250-3000 case. Winchester used 6mm Lee Navy, modified by making it semi-rimmed w/ std. rim diameter. Wotkyns version became .22/250 Varminter and Wotkyns original swift (WOS) see Ackley page 284. the better cartridge , than 22/250 or Swift is 22/250 Ackley Improved. Less taper, 40 degree shoulder, less brass flow, and back thrush on bolt, Less trimming !!! brass lasts a long time, and you can load 3000 fps loads not just 4000fps and the barrel will last longer. 3000 fps loads will do one-tenth of an inch 100 yds , 3 rds. if you want zero groups its light bullets at 4000 fps. BUY P.O. Ackleys books.

[Steve C]

Exactly and ASAP! :-)There is a neat tribute to Ackley here. Bellm, who provided most of the info and pics, is a close friend of mine.

[sum-rifle]

Well come on lets think of some more cartridges made from "Parent" cartridges.7X57 Mauser spawned the.............257 Roberts and 6mm Remington.30-06 is Daddy to.........25-06.270wildcat 338-06