50 replies to this topic

[Cranky Farmer]

Doesn't becoming a member of their "Copper Club" gain you access to their load data?Oh, and you can leave comments for Barnes regarding the CA Lead ban! -- > http://www.barnesbul...ornia-lead-ban/

[ShooterJohn]

Doesn't becoming a member of their "Copper Club" gain you access to their load data?

Yes it does but it's not free to become a member.

[Cranky Farmer]

Yes it does but it's not free to become a member.

I just looked, it is $50 a year!

[ShooterJohn]

Yep Barnes sticks it to us again. Why do I get the feeling they aren't on our side in all of this?

[woodog]

Yep Barnes sticks it to us again. Why do I get the feeling they aren't on our side in all of this?

That's a dead horse John. Time to move onward and upward. If you want to hunt in the lead-free area you will most likely be shooting Barnes, like it or not. The real question, in my mind, is where the hell were the other bullet manufactures for the past 20 years while Barnes was developing non-lead bullets? I doubt that Barnes has been conspiring for the past 20 years to keep the condors alive just to outlaw lead. Lead is nasty stuff and we see more than enough of it coming from China and India in toys for our kids and other stuff. Even handling lead while reloading has potential liabilities. I think it is important at this time to let all bullet manufactures know what we think of their stuff based on how it shoots and kills and not because we think they screwed us. Don't mean to be disrespectful, but I have watched the Barnes presentation to the Commission four time and I'll be damned if I can reach the same conclusions as those of you who think they sold us out. They have dumped a lot of money into research and development while the others ignored the potential problem and are now telling us that they are working on it. There will soon be a state-wide ban on lead ammo and the rest of the country will follow shortly after. Politicians need to appear as if they are solving the lead poising problem.No malice intended.SteveH

[ShooterJohn]

Steve I hear what you're saying about lead. As for the other manufactures nothing works as well as lead. Just like auto manufactures they don't make changes until they're forced to. But Steve, you can't seriously tell me you watched the presentation from Barnes and that they didn't state their bullets were equal or even cheaper than others. And that they had everything in stock with plenty ready to go. I know it's water under the bridge and if you have to shoot in the condor range you do what you have to do. I just didn't care for the way Barnes presented their case. The case is over and done with but you can't put poop under my nose and tell me it's sausage because I'm not falling for it. Barnes bullets, maybe I'll buy something I need from them. But more than likely I'll wait and see. I know others are going to produce non lead bullets it's the future. Lead is bad so is mercury from these NEW CFL bulbs the government is forcing use to turn too they're all made in China. China = BAD! So what do you do? I rest my case California is one screwed up place.

[Stan]

You were asking for some data I called Barnes today and they provided this  223Remington.pdf   79.15K   92 downloads  222_Remington.pdf   76.99K   58 downloadsHi Dave Thanks for the dataDid I miss it or is there no data for the 50 gr Grenade in 223?Did you try WW760 or BLC or H322 in your tests?Thanks StanEverything we tried and liked is listed. We use the 55 gr MPG data for the 50 gr VG.Here is his contact infoDave CardBarnes Bullets Inc.Customer Service/Sales800-574-9200 ex 103davec@barnesbullets.comTold him thanks PS I told him they need to get on here and do some explaining he said they have tried to something about being banned SJ?

[Rimrock]

http://www.barnesbul...ornia-lead-ban/[/url]

It looks like they pick and choose the comments they publish.

[Cranky Farmer]

It looks like they pick and choose the comments they publish.

Yep.

[Hemiallen]

SteveHAre you saying Barnes had the forthought about 15 or 20 years ago when they introduced their solid bullets? From my reloading bench seat, Barnes was trying to compete with Nosler partitions, which at the time had the most copper alloy percentage per bullet to make the seperation between the mushroom tip and the driving second half of the bullet to get penetration on big game. Hornady attempted to keep their bullets together longer with their inner cannelure, speer had some trick technology to keep the lead from seperating from the copper jacket... all in the name of penetration.You seem to imply Barnes was in the game for lead-free reasons, if so... I believe you are incorrect or misled.As stated above, besides heavy-met ( tungsten alloy), tungsten, gold, etc. lead is the choice for ballistic projectiles at our velocities. And the ISSUE about lead being unsafe for us reloaders is overstated for scare tactic reasons, IMHO.Lead OXIDE is bad for handling mainly due to being able to be ingested through food handling w/o washing after handling the lead. And the other main problem with lead is inhallation of the dust, either of the metal or of the oxide, or during casting bullets through inhallation of lead fumes. For most lead bullet reloaders either wear gloves when setting bullets in the bullet seater die, or wash your hands with a scrub brush before handling food. We had a backstemming job taking 4 tons of lead shot and pouring it out through a hopper, and everyone had lead testing done after a pregnant engineer asked if there was any chance of her ingesting lead and her baby having side effects from the job. I believe the lead settles in bone marrow....Back in about 1995 a company that escapes me now made TCP( total copper plated) 9mm bullets for us USPSA shooters who shot thousands of rounds a month in both indoor and outdoor ranges, and indoor ranges had a huge undertaking of adding air circulating scrubbers to reduce airborn lead injestion from lead exposed-base bullets. Some brands called them copper washed bullets( speer?), with a .003 to .005" thick full coating using electrolitic process' to plate the lead cores.OK, time to stop. Migraine making me ramble.... forgot where I was going with this.Hope some of this info is informative.... mostly true, lol.Allen

[woodog]

I rest my case California is one screwed up place.

Man, you got that right! Ridiculous laws, rules and regulations concerning guns, ammo and hunting and now they are going to make you spay or neuter your dogs after fining you twice if anyone complains about about anything your dogs might do.

[woodog]

Are you saying Barnes had the forthought about 15 or 20 years ago when they introduced their solid bullets? . . . You seem to imply Barnes was in the game for lead-free reasons, if so... I believe you are incorrect or misled.Allen

Barnes was trying to get on top of the market, nothing more or nothing less. It was coincidence that the direction they took was "lead free", at least as it relates to the condor issue. They are not heroes for making non-lead bullets and they did not do it for any other reason than to gain a bigger share of the market, in my opinion.Thanks for the other information in your post. Interesting stuff.SteveH

[wannakillacoyote]

Here you go, green .22 mags from CCI due to arrive at MidwayUSA 6/30/08 - maybe!http://www.midwayusa...leitemid=950079

They bumped the date just like I knew they would. Anyone find any locally? If so, could you pick up some for me? I NEED some!

[ShooterJohn]

I haven't heard of anywhere that has them. I called the Fish and Game Commission this morning asking about lead free ammo and it's availability or lack there of. They said they had no information on it and couldn't help me just to continue to look around. I said I had heard Barnes Bullets said they had plenty of stock on all bullets but that I can't find any. I said isn't it true Barnes told the commission this and that's what implemented the new law. The person said no they were unaware of any statements by Barnes or anyone else. So I asked where do we get this NEW non lead ammo. She said just keep checking with you favorite hunting supplier. So I said I guess I shouldn't buy a new license until you get some ammo out because I may have to use lead ammo. She wasn't happy.

[JimT.]

Anyone see a price on this stuff yet?

Heath, that was my same question. Where can we get it and how much does it cost?

[wannakillacoyote]

She said just keep checking with you favorite hunting supplier. So I said I guess I shouldn't buy a new license until you get some ammo out because I may have to use lead ammo. She wasn't happy.

I like it.As for prices $13.50 at Midway (if they ever get it in) and I was told $16 at my local gun shop (they are supposed to have some in within a week, but they think they are already sold).

[D-Man]

Heard some good news yesterday when I was at BPS. They said Winchester will soon be out with .22LR and .17HMR in a lead free option. It won't be as cheap as brick .22LR, but more like the CCI stinger and other premium .22LR brands. To be able to hunt with that, who cares? That is at least an affordable option! Can't wait to see that on shelves. Of course I will only be buying it for a rifles and not handguns if AB2062 passes! Wonder if they will make a subsonic offering as well.Darren

[wannakillacoyote]

That would be frickin awesome! I hate the idea of not being able to shoot my 10/22. Too bad I already have 10,000 rds in 22lr. It's all stuff my 10/22 loves American Eagle AE22 and Winchester Dynapoints. Man I hope Winchester makes the non-lead stuff shoot like the Dynapoints. My gun loves em.

[ShooterJohn]

I just hope somebody makes something and not have to keep waiting around with delay after delay. Sort of reminds me of Barnes reloading manual look how many times it was delayed.

[45Colt]

I thought maybe a tree that one of those anti hunters could hug!

Let them hug a cactus.

[wannakillacoyote]

FYI, my local Wal-mart had CCI 22mag ammo in-stock today. $12.97 a box. There were two of us in line, the first guy bought 10 boxes and I got the last two. I sold my 22mag just this week, but my friend has been looking for them.So, check your Wal-marts, it's only a matter of time before they all have them.Hopefully they shoot good for some of you guys.