117 replies to this topic

[Cranky Farmer]

What calibers can be built on a Remington 700 Magnum action?

[Desert Fox]

Almost limitless with the exception of the large Weatherby Magnums. I'm in a process of building a long range rig on a Remington Long action. The rifle will have an effective maximum range of 1500 meters. It's going to be chambered for 338 Lapua or 338/300 RUM. I'm still mulling between the two. I already have the barrel on hand, a Mike Rock 5R 1-9.4 twist, 30" MTU contour. The blue printed action will be here any day now. The barreled action will be mated to a McMillan A-5 with Williams Tactical bottom metal to house those big cartridge. My goal is to push the 300 grain SMK at 2900 FPS I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!

[Cranky Farmer]

That should be one sweet rifle! I was considering the 338 Lapua, but who knows.

[Desert Fox]

Lot's of Remington had been chambered for 338 Lapua. It needs some working, but it can be done. Actually, Remington is currently chambering their M24 with this round exclusively for the military.

[rr762mmfmj]

Fired a rifle match Sunday. The guy next to me had a 338 Lapua. Make sure you have a muzzle break or you are not going to have much fun shooting it. He told me he get 70 rounds loaded with one pound of powder. Wish I had one, maybe the next rifle................

[A17Shooter]

Howz bout a 244 H&H Improved? Fast twist barrel for the Berger 115 gr, 6MM bullets and you have a long range varmint gun. Without a lot of recoil.

[Desert Fox]

The problem with that round is, it is way overbore. Probably the barrel is washed out after 1500 rounds. I'm looking for efficiency and the Lapua will be ideal. With proper brake, like Vais or Holland - the beast can be tamed. Besides, I'm not gonna use this rifle for varmint anyway... well, maybe if I wanted my name on the VHA 1500 yard club

[clampdaddy]

A 6.5 STW would be pretty sweet.

[Cranky Farmer]

DF, how long are you going to have that barrel cut? Are you going to add a brake?

[Cranky Farmer]

A 6.5 STW would be pretty sweet.

I don't know a single thing about them.

[Desert Fox]

The 6.5 STW is one of the series of cartridges designed by Layne Simpson of Shooting Times Magazine. It's an 8MM Remington magnum case neck down to 6.5. He also created the 7MM STW and the 25 STW at about the same time. The idea is to improved on the performance of the long established cartridges like the 7MM Remington Magnum, the 264 Winchester magnum and the 257 Weatherby and 25-06 Remington. More power to him but I'm not sold to the idea.

DF, how long are you going to have that barrel cut? Are you going to add a brake

The barrel will finished at 30" and yes brake will add to that length. I decided to chamber the rifle in 338/300 Ultra. My gunsmith is not comfortable chambering it to 338 Lapua. I could send it out of state but my gunsmith does a very excellent work, so I'll have him do it. Anyway, the two cartridge is almost identical in performance.

[clampdaddy]

A while back I read an article that Layne Simpson did on his STW line of cartridges and he said that he uses the 6.5 more than any of the others. He's been around the block a time or two so I don't have a problem takeing his word for it, and you can't argue with the velocity numbers those cartridges are capable of putting out. They are by no means efficient but either is a top fuel dragster. You have to burn lots of fuel to make lots of horsepower.

[Desert Fox]

you can't argue with the velocity numbers those cartridges are capable of putting out.

Oh yes I can! There's no doubt the STW series of cartridges has more velocity when compared with the equivalent standard cartridges, but when you look at those numbers, you can see that they're not that significant. Let's compare for example the 7MM STW and the 7MM Remington Mag. Using my Nosler #4 Reloading Manual as reference. The 7 MM STW will launched the 175 Partition at 3032 fps on 73.5 grain of IMR-7828. The 7MM Remington Magnum on the other hand can launched the same bullet at 2950 fps on 65 grains of IMR-7828... a difference of 82 fps. Here's the beef. The 7MM STW will burn 13% more powder for a modest gain of 2.7% more in velocity. A case of diminishing return. Now let's look at ballistic. At 500 yards the STW will drop 43.4" from a 100 yards zero and will carry an energy of 1840 ft/lb. The Remington Mag will drop 46.3" and will have 1729 ft/lb energy remaining at 500 yards. A difference of 2.9" in elevation and 111 ft/lb in energy... at the expense of what? heavy recoil, wash-out barrel and probably a bad case of flinching. No! thanks Layne

[Desert Fox]

He's been around the block a time or two so I don't have a problem takeing his word for it,

The problem with a lot of this gun rags is that they have an agenda to sell magazines. In return, they get paid for it, get to hunt for free, and get freebies from manufacturers by pushing their products. If I'm in their shoes, I'll probably do the same thing. Others for reason of vanity, create their own wildcat, to get people excited, and sell more magazines in return. A lot of people will buy into these hype, especially those that are new to the sport. This won't work with the older and more experienced shooter though... who had been there and done that. A lot of these cartridges will weathered away, fade into obscurity, and nothing will be heard of them afterwards.

[Cranky Farmer]

DF, are you going to leave that barrel at 30 inches?

[Desert Fox]

Yep! 30" plus whatever the length of the brake will be. Also, I'll probably change the contour to light Palma. I want to keep the overall weight to 12 lbs. Stock alone weighs 4.5 lbs so I will have 7.5 lb to play between the action, barrel, scope base, rings and the IOR 6X18X40. Realistically though, I'm probably looking at a 14 lbs rifle.

[clampdaddy]

That is one way to look at it, but you're only useing one piece of data from one source. At the same time the hornady, sierra, and swift manuals all show a 200fps advantage to the STW over the Remington mag when loaded with 139/140gr bullets, which is what most deer hunters use anyway. The same 200fps differences show up between a 7 x 57mm and a .280, a .280 and a 7mm rem mag. The same 200fps spread also applies to the difference between a .338 win mag and the .338 ultra mag. Yes, it's going to kick more and be noisier but sometimes that's just one of the things you have to deal with to make extra power to gain fps in order reduce time of flight.

[Desert Fox]

Well, obviously I'll take your word for it since I don't have copies of the latest manual from Hornady, Sierra, Swift and Nosler. I haven't bought one in 10 years. By the way, we're discussing the STW's performance, comparing it to it's closest rival, ie 7MM STW for 7MM Remington Magnum, 6.5 STW for 264 Win Magnum and the 257 STW for 257 Weatherby. Let's stick to that. It's not fair to substitute and compare the 338 Win Mag to the 338 Ultramag, 280 Remington for 7MM Remington Magnum... they're totally different animal. As I stated in my previous post, I wasn't sold to the concept when Layne Simpson created his STW. It's just me, and I explained my position. Now everyone else is entitled to theirs. Cheers Gentlemen, DF

[clampdaddy]

I wasn't trying to be unfair or compare apples to oranges. I just used those other 7mm cartridges to show that the STW does hold a solid and earned rank in the progression of power for that bore size. As for the .338s, I just threw those in because I know you're a fan of the .338 ultra and thought that showing you that the gains that it produces over it's parent cartridge are about the same as a cartridge that you weren't a fan of. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Desert Fox]

As for the .338s, I just threw those in because I know you're a fan of the .338 ultra and thought that showing you that the gains that it produces over it's parent cartridge are about the same as a cartridge that you weren't a fan of.

Parent cartridge is not a right term since the the 338 Win Mag was spawned by the development of 458 Winchester Magnum, which is nothing more than a shortened 375 H&H cartridge shortened to fit the Model 70 action. The 338 Ultra on the other hand, is a totally new cartridge, developed by Remington based on the 404 Jeffry case. Clamp, don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just stating my opinion and the fact... that's all. cheers, buddy

[clampdaddy]

Good eye! As soon as I logged off this morning it hit me that I'd botched that terminology and I had a feeling that you'd probably bust me on it. I think that "cousin" is the term I should've went with. Oh well, I'm sure you still got the point I was trying to make.

[Desert Fox]

Got your point. I think we beat this subject to death... Heath, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

[Cranky Farmer]

No worries.

[clampdaddy]

I'm sorry too Heath. You know how it goes when religion, politics, or ballistics comes up around the campfire. So anyway, do you have a specific purpose intended for the rifle you're going to build on that action?

[peeker seeker]

Just get a 25-06 and call it a day. I had to say somthing. I dont think the 7mm stw is that much more of killer than the 7mm mag. the 708 and 280 kill dear just as dead. dead is dead. One might shoot flatter just hold over more on the others Sorry Heath. I think you could biuld about anything on it but IM NOT AN EXPERT. Good luck with the rifles guys Ill shut up now.

[Cranky Farmer]

I'm sorry too Heath.

No worries, I am the king of hijacking a thread. Besides, my question got answered so it's fair game. It looks like Pac-Nor chambers 338 Lapua so I just need to decide what contour I want to go with. I don't want to go too crazy with it as I'll probably take it out to shoot a deer or other critter with it... I can't help but wanting to hunt with what I've got.I am going to do this one slowly one piece at a time, so I won't have it complete any time soon. That will give me time to work out what I want / need.

[Desert Fox]

I can't help but wanting to hunt with what I've got.

This is exactly what my dilemma on this build. Weight is an issue but not the deciding factor. This is going to be a specialized long range rig capable of harvesting games at considerable distance. This rifle is going to be fed with a steady diet of 300 SMK. At 2900 fps, the Sierra with a B.C of .780 will remain supersonic up to 1700 yards and still retain an energy of over 1000lbs. With 100 yards zero, it would take 57 MOA of elevation to get there. No coyote will be safe within a mile radius. Heath, let me know if I of any help.

[clampdaddy]

That will be one helluva rig. Will it be a repeater or a single shot?

[D-Man]

My buddy just bought a Blaser lr2 sniper in .338 Lapua for harvesting elk at very long range. Plus with the interchangeable barrels and bolts he can chamber it in all kinds of fun things. Can't wait to get out and shoot that rifle here in the next couple of months.darren

[Desert Fox]

That will be one helluva rig. Will it be a repeater or a single shot?

CD, That's still under consideration. I could do either. With slight modification on the 700 reciever I could install Wyatt extended magazine that could house cartridges with an OAL of 3.820. I really like the 338 Lapua route due to better quality brass but my gunsmith never chambered one using the Model 700 Action. He is kind of leery about it. A friend however have a reamer for 338/300 Ultra Mag that he ordered when he built his. Actually the 338/300 Ultra has 3% more water capacity than the 338 Lapua. His rig can easily reach 2850 on a 30" K&P barrel using the 300 SMK without pressure sign whatsoever. I believe I could top that with my 30" Mike Rock Barrel using a much slower powder like he Reloader 25 or the Retumbo. He used IMR 7828. I'll be happy with 2900 fps. I have everything except the action. I want this rifle ready for A zone opening day this year.