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.7mm mag for Long Range Coyotes ?


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#1 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 07:40 AM

I was reading that you can get bullets as small as 100 gr. for the 7mm. I have a like new Browning A-Bolt that I have shot 3 times total, just to see if it shoots, anyway Im wondering about the twist rates of the Rifle. If I got the 100 grners, Im wondering if the Brownings current twist rates would make them fly accurately? Has anyone tried anything like this ? I dont think I need the 130+,grns to knock down a coyote!
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#2 Frank

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 07:53 AM

Unfortunately I never tried anything under a 140gr bullet in the 7mm mags I've owned over the years. Actually, pretty much any bullet weight that can shoot well in a 7mm mag would be great coyote medicine. The coyote ain't gonna like being shot with any bullet weight anyhow. LOL And they'll be great for long distances.Rates of twist can sometimes be very deceiving, shooting stuff very well when they shouldn't. Give the ligther bullets a try in other words; proofs always in the pudding. :signbummer8tl: Good LuckFrank

#3 CoyoteHuntress

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:33 AM

What do you consider long range?
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#4 Frank

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:43 AM

Well, for me, that would be anything beyond approx 300 yards. I can & have hit predators by holding dead on up to that distance. We measured a couple of those! Anything much beyond that starts to become guess work, even with my trajectory chart & range finder next to me. And as you noted, Long distance can mean many/different (distances) to many people. Some can shoot well at 600 yards. I can't even seen that far. LOL Hopefully I answered your question??Frank

#5 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:44 AM

What do you consider long range?

Well Huntress, for my rifles, I use mainly the .204, and after 300 yds, Id think its kind of inhumane to shoot at a coyote that far away with such a small caliber. The only other rifle I have for 300 yds and out would be the 7mm Mag.. Im wondering if the 100 grn would be stable enough to shoot. Im also thinking that the recoil may be less with a smaller projectile?
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#6 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:47 AM

Frank, I agree, I haven't shot at a critter past 300 yards, due to the rifle I shoot. I guess I should wheel off about 500 yards here on the ranch.. and try it on paper first ! lol
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#7 Frank

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:53 AM

Ornery, you are fortunate to have a place to shoot that far and is a great idea. Could set up targets at each 100 yard intervals, testing different loads and bullet styles from lenth of drop. IE; hollow points vs bal tip/v-max etc.I've seen targets of different tests like that over the years, but has been awhile now. They are always interesting to me.Let us know your results whenever / if you get around to it. Good LuckFrank

#8 clampdaddy

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 09:00 AM

Years ago I worked up a load for a friends 7 mag that shot pretty darn well. I'd have to dig around to find powder and primer numbers but I do know that I was loading 110gr speers. It was a "one holer" out of my buddys bone stock rem 700 ADL.
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#9 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 09:10 AM

If you happen to run across the Info.. That would be cool ! I guess I really need to shoot the rifle a little with the shells I have, and see how accurate it is already.
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#10 ShooterJohn

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 09:54 AM

Lighter bullets would be fine in your rifle. Technically you only need more twist for larger heavier bullets.

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#11 CoyoteHuntress

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 09:56 AM

You need to check out the Best of the West... they use the 7 mag to shoot elk at long distance.. Alot of long distance shooters are using the 7 mag due to less kick. They shoot coyotes at long ranges so if your able to drop a coyote at 800 yards you know your dead on for a critter the size of an elk. 400 yards is a common shot for us. Heck I even do that with my 25.06. Im shooting 100 grain remingtons and it will drop a deer at 400 yards as long as I hold over for the drop. My scope doesnt have adjustable turrets so I cant go out any further than that. Plus Id have to switch to a heavier grain and dont want to do that since this rifle loves these 100 gr remingtons. My 223 will go 300 yards easy enough, and kill the coyote. The key to long distance shooting is know the range BEFORE you shoot, use steady shooting sticks, and practise ALOT.. Youll find that shooting long range will increase your shooting skills in ways you cant even imagine. Those 200 yard shots will come so easy It will be 2cd nature to you :signbummer8tl: Try different brands, differetn loads, and find what your rifle shoots the best. Once you find what works in your rifle, then Youll want a chrony, ballons, a range finder, and a good scope, steady rest, and a spotter. Sight in first at 100 yards to make sure your on paper. Then move to 200 yards see where they are hitting.. At 100 yards hubbys bullets are still rising. So it better be hitting high at 200..We then zero in at 200 yards.. That is our zero point. We use balloons way out there as they are easier to see for the spotter. Paper plates as well. If you can group your shots withen that small dinner plate at 500 yards your doing good :roflmao3[1]: Once you can do that move to a smaller cake plate.. Check out the Best of the West. They are the long range "Gods" as far as we are concerned. There are many sites you can go to to check ballistics, you can choice your caliber, load, distance etc. It will show you what you need to know to get you started. Just dont get skimpy with the loads. You want to still have enough impact to kill your target.
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#12 LuckyShot

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:38 AM

Well ornery you will have a chance to find out on are next trip because Chuck uses something like what you are talking about. I think he is shooting 110Hp's though. You rifle will have more than enough twist for those light bullets. I use to load some 110HP's for my 30-06 and they shot pretty good.
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#13 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:43 AM

Thanks for all that Info Huntress... Im going to check that site out too !
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#14 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:45 AM

Well ornery you will have a chance to find out on are next trip because Chuck uses something like what you are talking about. I think he is shooting 110Hp's though. You rifle will have more than enough twist for those light bullets. I use to load some 110HP's for my 30-06 and they shot pretty good.

Cant wait for the trip.. as long as the weather holds.. Look forward to seeing what Chuck is shooting, Heck the other great thing about the Browning, it feels like Half the weight of the .204! lol
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#15 CoyoteHuntress

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:52 AM

If you are lucky to catch them on Satelite they show enough to wet your appetite for sure :popcorn: On their site they have a DVD set that is around 100.00 but its well worth it! the information is awesome.. It will explain ALOT and also goes into building a long range rifle.. They are the ones who built hubbys scope.. Now my son will be getting one built for his 300 ultra mag soon as we have some spare cash...LOL.. Spoiled child for sure...
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#16 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:52 AM

Lighter bullets would be fine in your rifle. Technically you only need more twist for larger heavier bullets.

I was more concerened with the fact that the lighter projectile didnt need as much twist, that the possibility of the bullet coming apart could happen ? Or the copper fouling increasing due to spin rate ? I read something like that on another site. Any thoughts !
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#17 Desert Fox

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:02 AM

John is right! The only thing you have to worry is the the bullet blowing up before it gets to the target. 7 Mag has 9 twist barrel designed for bullet weight between 140 to 175 grain so 100 will be too light. Long range shooting is subjective. For some, 200 yards is long range, for others about a mile.

If you can group your shots withen that small dinner plate at 500 yards your doing good smile.gif Once you can do that move to a smaller cake plate..

Easier said than done CH! Make sure you include wind in the equation and be ready to throw a lot of money downrange. :popcorn: Check these target below shot at our 500 meter range with my 308 Tactical, shooting 155 grain Lapua Scenar. The wind was gusting intermittent between 15 to 31 MPH. I was trying to dope the wind and lost. I fired a total of 5 shot but as you can see there's only two holes on it. I have no idea how far the other 3 was pushed because my target had no back stop. I dialed my scope for the 15 MPH wind, but the wind can be hard to predict. The 3 that went astray was when the 31MPH had blown just as I pulled the trigger. Go figure!!!Posted Image
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#18 CoyoteHuntress

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:15 AM

Yes wind, temps, humidity and elavation all play a role in long range shooting. Wind is the hardest since where you are might be blowing one way and then target might have no wind or blowing opposite.. Specially when you are out 800 some odd yards.. When you are wanting to reach way out there windy days are a no no... Calm or slight breeze is fine.. As the wind can blow your bullet off target a LONG ways... We only shoot the longer distances when its calm or slight breeze. but under 400 yards the wind doesnt matter enough to cause too much concern. Long as you can still hit the dinner plate :popcorn: Its funny, my son is all into the long range shooting, He wanted to join the military as a sniper..so he could shoot mile long shots and have access to those big ole rifles.. Until he figured out they dont let you out for deer season... That ended his military carreer LOL...
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#19 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:40 AM

Great Info everyone ! Im gonna have to shoot the Browning soon !
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#20 Desert Fox

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:50 AM

400 yards the wind doesnt matter enough to cause too much concern.

It does matter for small target like coyote on up to deer. My 155 Scenar, with a B.C of .508, can be push 6 inches off target by a mere 5 MPH wind at 400 yards. Factor that with your rifle accuracy, ammo quality, and nerve... that's enough to miss your target. Yeah, it would be nice to shoot in an ideal conditions but that's rarely the case. In hunting, you have to be prepared for anything and that includes shooting in 31 MPH wind!
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#21 A17Shooter

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:50 AM

Ornery,I think you may be short changing the 204. If you would shoot a coyote with a 357 Mag at 100 yds, you would smack it with 400 ft-lbs. That is the same as a 204 40 gr VMax at 500 yds if it is launched at the full Hornady velocity of 3900 fps. Should be plenty of thump for a 'yote. Course the problem is hitting the 'yote at 500.Now about that 7 Mag - Max muzzle velocity with a 100 gr bullet is about 3600 fps. The 600 yd velocity will be 1674, Wind drift 42 inches with 10 mph wind and the 600 yd energy will be 622 ft-lbs.With the 204 - Muzzle velocity with a 40 gr VMax is about 3900 fps. The 600 yd velocity will be 1841 fps, wind drift 37.7 inches and the 600 yd energy will be 301 ft-lbs.So about all you'll get with the 7 Mag will be more thump because of the heavier bullet. Because the BC of the two bullets is virtually identical, the flight path of the 204 will be slightly improved over the 7 Mag.

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#22 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 02:05 PM

Ok then how about with a standard grn weight.. say 140 grns.. It would seem to me that a heavier projectile would have less wind drift and much more thump when it hits ? Thats why I was asking about the 100 grn bullets.. maybe it would be better to shoot a heavier bullet for the long range ? As you can see I'm not a reloader, and I haven't studied ballistics much.
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#23 A17Shooter

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 07:40 PM

Ornery,You asked an excellent question that makes a good point. Velocity is not the end all, be all factor in long range shooting. By prowling through the bullet companies websites a pretty good 140 grain bullet was found. The BC of the Hornady 139 grain SST is .486. The BC of the 204 40 gr VMax is .275 and the Hornady 7 MM 100 gr HP is .279. So now with the ballistically superior 139 gr SST the muzzle velocity is reduced to a max of 3140 fps. But, the question is what happens at 600 yds? The 600 yd velocity will be 2028, Wind drift 25 inches with 10 mph wind and the 600 yd energy will be 1268 ft-lbs. So now the trajectory is flatter, the wind drift is less and you hit with a lot of thump. What's the drawback? Well, how about recoil? Your 7 Mag with a hot 140 gr load will probably kick you out of the target picture and you'll need a spotter to tell what is really going on. Of course, you already know that. Nothing is perfect. :drinks:

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#24 Desert Fox

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 08:46 PM

What's the drawback? Well, how about recoil? Your 7 Mag with a hot 140 gr load will probably kick you out of the target picture and you'll need a spotter to tell what is really going on.

That's why they invent muzzle breaks :roflmao3[1]: You can always slow it down you know. My 280 push the 150 Nosler Ballistic Tip at around 2875 fps and I have never lost sight of anything I've shot with it due to recoil. The rifle with 24 inch Douglas #4 weighs slightly over 8 lbs. Like A17, I'll pick heavier bullet over a lighter one for better ballistic downrange. Some says 180 grain is too much for deer on a 300 Win Mag but it's my bullet of choice for these round. It has excellent ballistic down range and hit harder.
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#25 A17Shooter

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:02 PM

As DF points out there are solutions for recoil problems and lots of different cartridge, powder & bullet combinations to juggle to find the best solution for your particular ballistic problem. We have so many different cartridges today, that it seems wildcat cartridges should be a thing of the past. Well, that is, unless you talk to a died in the wool wildcatter! :roflmao3[1]: But, Ornery is trying to find a way to best utilize a rifle he already owns, without diving off into the money pit and building a special purpose rifle with a lot of expensive extras. That is a really good way to find out if long range shooting is a path that you want to go down. Of course some of you are thinking that he already has a donor rifle that could be rebarreled to a 244 H&H Improved with a 7 twist barrel and capable of firing a 115 gr berger (BC = .595) at maybe 3400 or 3500 fps. Let's see what those 600 yd numbers look like then. With a 3500 fps muzzle velocity and a BC of .595, you get these numbers. The 600 yd velocity will be 2500, Wind drift 16.6 inches with 10 mph wind and the 600 yd energy will be 1596 ft-lbs. And it does shoot flat, with a 600 yd zero it will only be 17" high at around 300 yds. :roflmao3[1]: :signs1180lq: Enough dreaming..

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