39 replies to this topic

[turkeyman85]

Gonna have to try that Bob,I havent had the money to make it back out there,but will be going soon. I am a die hard turkey hunter and I havent gone out at all this fall season.So thats gonna be my next trip this weekend. Might be heading out to do some quail hunting with my dad after Xmas.Than start chasing chukar in Jan,and be getting after some ducks also.
PS glad you got into those ducks up in the valley,so far you've shot way more of the better class of ducks than I have lol.

[Bisley]

That's the main way we hunt chukar out there in that particular area. Once we figured out their habits we would kind of hilltop it in a well known area, but spot and chase until then. I always ride with my vest either on or as a seat cover. And you should see how fast my buddy and I can grab a shotgun and load it on the run while everyone else is still at the truck looking for their vests

I am sure we will still be on six days in January, but if you want to try and head up there New Years for a day or two to chase ducks and hopefully a goose or two (fingers crossed), or even drive up on a Saturday and maybe get in an evening hunt if we haul plus a full Sunday some time in January, let me know. If I don't work the Saturday before X-mas I will be up there Saturday and Sunday again, but if we do work Saturday I will be up there Sunday and Monday instead. One of the many joys of being single lol! Don't know if you can make that one . Hopefully the park owner has the water valve fixed by then? But I would rather have a warm bed and no water than warm water and a cold bed.

By the way, you best consider bringing that kid of yours if you do go, it don't cost juniors nothing but the shells to hunt them (and it's funner watching them connect anyway).

[sxshooter]

One 2 year study on chukar put radio telemetry on 125 birds. During the 2 years there was 76% mortality. Only 8% was due to hunting. 33% was due to avian predation. 3% was due to mammal predation. Of course this isn't a statistically representative sample, just a snapshot. But that avian predation number is big.

[tawnoper]

The birds are always out there, just some years are better than others. Same as Jackrabbits. Rain and the timing of the rain plays a part as well.

Every so often we have a banner year. 2005 was a really good year for Chukar and Quail. That same year we had a lot of jacks as well.

[Bisley]

But that avian predation number is big.

Of that I have no doubt, especially since there is a bird of prey refuge not but 30(ish) miles away from the city of Red Mountain. I just have huge problems with studies like that, just as I do about polls. I have seen coveys during archery but before general opener with as many as 200-300 birds (chukar) all feeding in one spot, and very often 50-60 during the season. So that means that the total of birds studied was either 1/2 a covey or 2 coveys. Literally a drop of water in the ocean. Also what area were the studied in? We hunt hilled areas with lots of small peaks and valleys making it much more difficult for even birds of prey to get into versus the flatter area around RM. Kind of like saying the average kid has a 75% chance of getting into gangs when studied in the ghetto, but that would be an entirely different number/ball game in Podunk Louisiana. That's why numbers and research like that mean so little to me when I have physically seen them in great force year after year, even the so called bad years.

Bottom line, don't believe everything you hear, and go look for yourself (especially away from where the whole world hunts) if you really want birds.

[turkeyman85]

Ya Bob I might be able to get up there if my pops is willing to head up,now he doesnt like the whole duck hunting thing but I do! lol Also Im not to sure I can bring my boy since hes only 6 months,and if you were talking about the nephew I'd have to bring his dad with me and I dont like blow up an invite like that. But I'll let you know if i can make it,without my pops actually. And I also found that spot with fresh crap and tracks to that a heck of alot closer to,maybe we can do one of those sunday quick trips up that way.

[sxshooter]

Bob
Your questions challenge the validity and applicability of the study data. That's a good thing. Anyone referring to study or test data from others should ALWAYS challenge, scrutinize, and be suspicious of data. At work, If we accepted past data from outside sources (or sometimes internal sources) without challenge, transport airplanes wouldn't be as good and safe as they are today. How that data is used is yet another chance to make a wrong turn.

Bottom line...studies provide data. Enough good data provides trends. Enough trends provide an expectation. "Going looking" provides data too, but it too is very limited in what data you get.

I did point out that the study wasn't statistically significant, in case it wasn't obvious. Reading studies by biologists combined with my own boot leather has worked pretty well for me. Biologists are just like the rest of us...some are good at their job, some not. But they do have aadvantages over most weekend warriors in that they are educated in biology and usually have much more time to spend in the field. The few I've met were enthusiastic about their work.

The study, I referred to was done in NV.

In the summer, there's been reports of large numbers of birds, even in years where the hunting season panned out to be lower harvests. Quail and chukar have larger numbers of offspring to offset attrition later in the year.

[dabob]

When we use to go Chukar Hunting over on the desert it we didn't see any hawks and falcons we knew there was not many chuckars.

This year we didn't see any quail paired up from 10 miles South of Maricopa to 40 miles West of McKittrick. We saw lots of quail just no pairs or any chicks.





At the water trough in these pictures we would get pictures of pigs and deer at night and by 8:00 am the only sign we could see around the water was quail tracks

[GSP4Runner]

Cool pictures. What is the animal in the 2nd picture? It looks like a small mountain lion?

[Bisley]

I did point out that the study wasn't statistically significant, in case it wasn't obvious.

Yessir, I did catch that, just ranting about the polls also is all. They can make anything produce numbers they want, as long as the right area is polled. Makes me wonder if that study was done before or after they transplanted all those San Bernardino/Kern County quail out there?

If I had the Room Juan, I would say bring them all, but unfortunately I don't even know if I will have running water or how much family is going up yet. We may have to shower in Big PIne, but you can tell the wife it's OK, I only have a 1/2 truck, so even if we go to town you're safe because there's no way we could get one Paiute woman home in my 1/2 ton let alone 2 . Let me know that week what's up. And I am always down for a one day (Sunday) hunt. I know most prefer all weekend, but I can not afford that luxury at the moment