10 replies to this topic

[jawbreaker]

OK, it's been about a year now since this has happend and I'm not the best writer so bear with me. Last October Marcelo and I were headed out to meet some buddies for a little campout/contest, we both had to work on Friday so we didn't meetup and get on the road until about 8pm. On the way out to the place we were going to meet we wanted to check out a dirt road that we were planning on hunting our way home onbecause it was raining and we weren'tsurehow this road is when it's wet( some of the dirt roads we hunt aren't passable after a rain. We drive down this road for about a mile with my off road lights running because it's raining and we are bombing this dirt road at night, once we descide the road is passable we turn around and head back to the freeway. I get to the paved portion of the road , turn off the foff road lights and get on the freeway to go meet up with the guys and about a half a mile on the freeway we get lit up with who we think is a border patrol wich is common where we hunt. It turns out it's a fish cop and he immediatly asks us why we are running from him and proceeds in telling us he watched us poach deer, he also states that deer season starts at midnight. Marcelo and I both are suprised at this and tell him what we were doing out there and he the asks us if we have any weapons. Both of us reply yes at the same time and tell him they are cased in the back seat(I drive a cherokee so there is no trunk or bed).

I have to get my guys goin at work so I will finish it up in a little bit.

[jawbreaker]

So he asks if he can look at the guns and we say no problem and I tell him I am going to reach back and unlock the back door, he opens the door and unzips the guncase on that side and sees a sleeve on the buttstock with ammo in it and askes why we have a loaded gun, we tell him that the gun isn't loaded and he states that the sleeve actually makes it a loaded gun and askes Marcelo to get out of the vehicle and for me to keep my hands on the steering wheel. after he frisks Marcelo he comes to my side of the jeep and trys to open the door but I forgot to unlock it so he beats on the windo and yells at me for locking the door, I ulock the door and explain to him that it was locked the whole time and I didn't unlock it before because he told me to keep my hands on the wheel. after I am ou tof the jeep and frisked I ask if we can get our jackets out of the jeep because it's still raining and I was freezing my azz off and he said he had to check the rest of the vehicle before he would let us get our jackets( it would have been nothing for him to check the pockets of our jackets first and let us put them on).He proceeds to take all of the gun cases out of the jeep and put them on the ground and open them up (in the rain) then asks where we keep the ammo. I keep my ammo in a drawer in the back of the jeep and Marcelo's is in a tool box with hi othe supplies so he looks and finds the ammo then tears through the rest of the jeep and finds an AR magazine a 10-22 magazine and my 22-250 magazine in the center console all loaded but neither of us had those guns this trip they were there from the range th week before and it's not against the law to have long gun ammo in the same area as the long guns but he didn't think so. we did have our spot light rolled up in the back and were planning on night hunting where we were headed because it was legal there( it is legal to night hunt where we got pulled over too but it's not legal to discharge there and that's why we had everything stowed. He found a headlamp under the back seat that Marcelo lost a year before and gave us crap about that too. I also have an ARB d/c cooler that we had drinks and sandwiches in and he hassled us for having that, saying we were planning on putting game in there. We told this guy we were on our way to predator hunt and he could clearly see that was the case but in his report he said we told him we were hunting mammals and that I had game calls hanging on my dash which I don't know any callers that don't have a call on the dash or near there.
We both take off work before the date on the ticket because it said on or before the datethat was listed and when we get there the lady behind the desk says we can't take care of it because it's before the date listed. I explain that I drove 2 hours and took off of work to go to court because the ticket said on or before and she just said too bad and when I asked for her suppervisor she got lippy and said if I kept giving her a hard time she would have me arrested. Marcelo and I drove back up there on the court date and waited 2 hours to be seen only to have them tell us we couldn't be heard and either plead guilty or not guilty and go to trial. we asked for a PD and waited for another 2 hours and he read the case and said it was BS and he would talk to the DA. the Da came back out an hour later and said she wouldn't do anything for us and didn't want to hearour side of the story. Long story short we both got a lawyerat 1500 bucks a piece and a year later got the charges dropped to a public tresspass charge( god only know why that is because we were not tresspassing) and had to pat a $450 fine. So a year later and about $3000 later we are done with this crap.
Marcelo might remember more of this and chime in.

[Shoot-it]

That warden was on a witch hunt he wanted to catch poachers real bad but pulled over two guys that went off roading for a little bit.

[ShooterJohn]

That is ashamed Ron! I've heard the same thing about people being treated at court similarly to what you two experienced. Even after being cleared of the specific charges they were charged with another misdemeanor and find also. The only thing I see that may have caused a problem but it would have been after your stop, is that you can't night hunt with a light for for predators during deer season. But like you said the season didn't start till midnight so no offense. This all goes back to why it's always better to error on the side of safety when carrying guns.

I have a friend who's wife was charged for carrying an illegal concealed weapon. My friend left the empty gun laying on the floor of their car after a shooting range outing the weekend before. When his wife stopped at a store she noticed the gun had slid out and was carrying it to put into the trunk when an off duty police officer saw her. I am sure she wasn't the most cooperative person and was arrested and now has a felony conviction. The gun was a 1911 .45 his father had brought home from WWII and wasn't registered and they threw the book at her. They now can't have guns in there home anymore not that I'm sure that bothers her.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

In this case it seems as though Ron met a true "Barney Fife" ! This is prolly much like John and other posters that have echoed his words, to lean on the side of caution. It looks as though The FG Warden used the DOJ rules because you were on pavement. Call Me paranoid, but I also use Cali rules while hunting in Nv. While its perfectly legal to drive with ammo in the rifle, I wont. Judging by the way Ron was treated it should kinda teach us all a lesson about how even following laws to the best of our abilities it could still go against us. It shows us what side the law will most likely stick up for . Right Or Wrong! The warden that I talked to did however bring up certain points.. like being in rural/residential areas, and that could influence his decisions on how he would handle a situation. Its a strange State we live in, with all of these Liberal Bunny Humpers, but in My estimation, not giving them any reason is the best Medicine. Thanks for sharing the story, and hopefully others will learn what can happen. Thanks for sharing this Ron.

[GSH]

It seems that they (LE) have an phobia about saying, "we're sorry we made a mistake", you have be guilty of something.

[Broncowilly]

I've said sorry more than once. One cannot account for the attitude of another and why they do the things they do. The F&G officer was way out of line and sounds like the DA and court system were as well. We used to have an F&G officer like that that worked the Piute area, Warren Croker! What a jerk he was.

I hunt with an M1A and back in 1995 he stopped me and said he was going to confiscate my M1A because it was on the "Rossi" gun act ban list. I was baffled and asked what the "Rossi" gun act ban was. So I asked him what the hell the “Rossi” gun act was. He said it was an assault rifle and placed it on the hood of my truck, knurled scope mount knobs down so they scratched the paint. I asked “Warren, do you mean the Roberti Roos assault weapons ban list?” He said uh, yeah that. I asked him to show me the Springfield Armory M1A on this Roberti Roos gun ban list. He turned his back and I threw the rifle in the cab and locked the door. He was so mad he was jumping up and down and said I was under arrest. I said no problem Warren. I just backed him on a call in Lake Isabella three days before and I reminded him of that. I assured him that would not happen again. I also told him if he could show me that the Springfield Armory M1A was on the Roberti Roos assault weapons ban list I would go freely for PC 148. He looked for 20 minutes and could not find it. He then just said you are free to go. No apology, no nothing. I went off on him! I called him every name in the book and a few made up names! Well my hunting partner and I drove right straight to the F&G office in Lake Isabella and filed a complaint, Jerry filled out a witness affidavit and I showed him the scratches on the hood. I told the entire story, including all I had done and said. I knew the captain who took the report and he told me Croker was causing a lot of issues and he assured me he would take care of it.

The next weekend I saw Warren and he had a tape recorder around his neck and I asked him if that was what the captain made him do to insure he behaved. He just said yes and he beat feet back to his truck and took off. I suspect his captain told him to steer clear of me. He was gone a few years later. I heard he took a correspondence course in law, took and passed the BAR and was working as an attorney specializing in F&G laws.

I don't get stupid like that any longer. I've grown up some and I sure don't suggest anyone else confront these rouge F&G officers. It is sad how these youngsters act though and most are very young anymore. The stupid thing is these F&G officers are in the middle of nowhere and act like this? Most everyone they come in contact with are armed or at least have a firearm close by. Man, there needs to be better training

[BCF]

All I can say in support is sorry you had to go through all that, and it's complete and total BS. This could have easily happened to me, or probably any of us. So many damn stupid rules and regulations here...you have to be a lawyer to remember them all, practically. I like to think I know and follow them all, but truth is- I probably don't, just because they're so complicated, but my intention is to do the best I can. Not that that's worth a crap.

[5150Marcelo]

Yep, not to mention, he saw our rifles and shotguns and laughed. Said with heavy sarcasm, "this is some pretty serious stuff just for hunting coyotes". He searched that jeep hi and lo. I asked him if he found a deer carcass yet and I dont think he thought that was funny. He said he wasnt gonna cite us for the 'multiple firearms violations' and for Rons 'laser mounted shotgun' (it was a truglo red dot site). He said he'd only write us up for spotlighting during deer season. I told him even if we were spotlighting, it was 11 minutes too early (11:49 PM). He about stomped his feet and went back to his truck where he then wrote us up for something else... spotlighing from a roadway with auxillary lights. (Ron has a cargot rack over the cab with 2 offroad lights in the front)

When he first approached the vihicle, he asked about the overhead lights. I made it perfectly clear. "THEYRE FOR NAVIGATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY" as it was windy, raining, DARK, and we were OFFROADING. These are FIXED lights. He said we were poaching deer. Hunting illegally because there were wepons in the vehicle. I then asked him "so when I left my home to work this morning at 3am with my rifle and shotgun in the back seat and my auxillary fog lights on, I was hunting???" He said YES! I was flabbergasted! I just could not believe the moron-ism this guy was coming up with.

You know, Ron is a pretty mellow dude. Me on the other hand, I live by the golden rule. Treat others they way you want to be treated. Ron and I were nothing but respectful and truthful with this dick. But the relentless scolding and disrespect we received from him finally put me over the edge. I mean, we HAVE NOT done anything wrong, so why should I walk on eggs shells?? He already said he "didnt give a $hit what we said, he's gonna write his report so we can tell it to the judge". Thats when I said that it sucks that all he has to do is whip a few things up on a piece of paper with his open and ASSume we were doing something wrong when we werent, and that leaves us in a big $hit hole to dig ourselves out of. I was in disgust with this MATT SHANLEY guy. Complete a$$hole. I finally told him to do what he has to do and hurry up and write the ticket. We had coyotes to go kill.

I generally have alot of respect for law enforcement, but this guy just totally ruined it for the DFG guys. I wont go out of my way to disrespect them, but if I saw one in the outdoors needing a helping hand, id probably smile as I drive right by. Maybe flash my lights at them

[GSH]

I've said sorry more than once. One cannot account for the attitude of another and why they do the things they do. The F&G officer was way out of line and sounds like the DA and court system were as well. We used to have an F&G officer like that that worked the Piute area, Warren Croker! What a jerk he was.

I hunt with an M1A and back in 1995 he stopped me and said he was going to confiscate my M1A because it was on the "Rossi" gun act ban list. I was baffled and asked what the "Rossi" gun act ban was. So I asked him what the hell the “Rossi” gun act was. He said it was an assault rifle and placed it on the hood of my truck, knurled scope mount knobs down so they scratched the paint. I asked “Warren, do you mean the Roberti Roos assault weapons ban list?” He said uh, yeah that. I asked him to show me the Springfield Armory M1A on this Roberti Roos gun ban list. He turned his back and I threw the rifle in the cab and locked the door. He was so mad he was jumping up and down and said I was under arrest. I said no problem Warren. I just backed him on a call in Lake Isabella three days before and I reminded him of that. I assured him that would not happen again. I also told him if he could show me that the Springfield Armory M1A was on the Roberti Roos assault weapons ban list I would go freely for PC 148. He looked for 20 minutes and could not find it. He then just said you are free to go. No apology, no nothing. I went off on him! I called him every name in the book and a few made up names! Well my hunting partner and I drove right straight to the F&G office in Lake Isabella and filed a complaint, Jerry filled out a witness affidavit and I showed him the scratches on the hood. I told the entire story, including all I had done and said. I knew the captain who took the report and he told me Croker was causing a lot of issues and he assured me he would take care of it.

The next weekend I saw Warren and he had a tape recorder around his neck and I asked him if that was what the captain made him do to insure he behaved. He just said yes and he beat feet back to his truck and took off. I suspect his captain told him to steer clear of me. He was gone a few years later. I heard he took a correspondence course in law, took and passed the BAR and was working as an attorney specializing in F&G laws.

I don't get stupid like that any longer. I've grown up some and I sure don't suggest anyone else confront these rouge F&G officers. It is sad how these youngsters act though and most are very young anymore. The stupid thing is these F&G officers are in the middle of nowhere and act like this? Most everyone they come in contact with are armed or at least have a firearm close by. Man, there needs to be better training

I apologize, got a little carried a way, worked with a lot LEO's during my career and not all LEO's are that way but I've seen a whole bunch that are.

[Broncowilly]

No apology needed. I didn't take that as anything but frustration. I was so upset with Croker I couldn't see straight! In fact his fellow F&G officer hated him as well.