52 replies to this topic

[Shoot-it]

I got another chance this afternoon to take a nice dog with the 7 mag 139 GMX bullet .it was about 150 yards away before I got a shot on it.I hit him in the front chest and it exited out the heart area.Don't tell Frank but I am starting to like this Rem 700...


exit


we have some nice ones to they are not all mangy.

[Air Rifle Hunter]

Great shot and that is a very nice looking coyote.

[jawbreaker]

John, I hope you took a bunch of pictures of that coyote, It's got to be the best looking one you've shot. No mange or anything like that.

[ShooterJohn]

Good looking coyote John. Don't forget too remove that shell holder when you put that gun back into the truck.

[Frank]

Don't tell Frank but I am starting to like this Rem 700...

I KNEW IT !!! And THAT'S what I am talking about, John.

I mean it just doesn't get any better than that. Great looking coyote, GORGEOUS rifle, and an instant kill.

And team Remington is growing

[Shoot-it]

Good looking coyote John. Don't forget too remove that shell holder when you put that gun back into the truck.

I talked to a 30 year veteran of the chp while on duty he said it was legal it's not considered loaded.As of dfg law I don't know.
I have shot other nice ones in the past.I was going to skin this one out but after a few hours passed it had a awful bad smell.
i keep rotating that first picture on photo bucket but it still come's out that way.

[Bennie]

Way to go on the Coyote. 700's are my favorite. Glad you are liking yours.

[ShooterJohn]

You can't have ammo attached in anyway to your rifle when transporting it. Sorry but your thirty year CHP officer is wrong.

[Rob]

SJ is right again....BINGO

Oh...and Frank is too!

[DirtyDave]

You can't have ammo attached in anyway to your rifle when transporting it. Sorry but your thirty year CHP officer is wrong.

Sorry John, but you are incorrect on this one. External shell/cartridge/magazine holders do not make a firearm "Loaded". There are 2 key things here. People vs Clark determined what is "Loaded", and F&G code give you a bit more leway and says ONLY the chamber must be empty WHEN HUNTING.

People v. Clark(1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99 specifically limited 12031(g) by holding that in order to be “loaded” a firearm must have ammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”. The case rested on the fact that a shotgun is not loaded when shotgun shells were attached to a shotgun inside a buttstock shell carrier.
The holding of People v. Clark applies to all types of firearms, not just shotguns.


F&G code. If you are Hunting, only the chamber needs to be empty when transporting.

2006. It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or along
or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way open to
the public.
A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell
in the firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells
are in the magazine.

[Thumper Dunker]

Nice one John boy. How for did it run? Im surprised your rifle was loaded. Hey good shot. Don't tell any one but. I love my remington 700 .

[modoc squeek shooter]

Nice dog, but I damn sure like the rifle. Ed

[Divernhunter]

Nice dog and rifle. Been deer hunting this year?? I hear it has been pretty quit in the D6 area so far.

[KNOCKED UP]

Very pretty dog,
I have that very same gun,
That is before my grandson took possession of it,
So I gave it to him for his birthday.
DD, you may be technically correct,
But I am sure the attorney fees are not cheap
To prove your point, because in California, they will
Arrest you now, and let you prove your innocents later.
Tom

[Shoot-it]

Nice dog and rifle. Been deer hunting this year?? I hear it has been pretty quit in the D6 area so far.

I hunted a zone real hard didn't see a legal buck maybe next year.I still have an AO tag.I rather go coyote calling then deer hunting at least I get to see the game I am after..

[ShooterJohn]

Sorry Dave, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you because the State Attorney Generals Office sees it differently and says this:

A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any manner to,
the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to
the firearm. A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is capped or primed and has a
powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. (Penal Code § 12031(g).)

So until they change this law it's a very grey area and you could be cited. I wouldn't want to have to go to court to hopefully be exonerated. As long as there is a law on the books it would be your attorneys job to dispute the law. Do you really want to spend that kind of money to hopefully prove a point? I can bet you money that if you try and throw People vs Clark in an officers face you are going to be cited for this and something else.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

I wonder about a holster for a handgun. My Holster holds 6 bullets in the front of it in bullet loops. I suppose I could even get in trouble for that. Only in Friggin Ca.! lol

[ShooterJohn]

Well I went to the CHP's website and found this answer for you Grant.

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

Oh and If you do not have a concealed carry permit, you can only lawfully transport a concealed handgun in your vehicle if it is (1) unloaded and (2) locked in the vehicle’s trunk, or in a separate locked container other than the utility or glove compartment. This means you cannot carry the gun in your vehicle’s center console, even if it is locked, or in the storage area behind the rear seat in hatchbacks. Penal Code Section 12026.1 defines a locked container as “a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device”.

Dave mentioned this earlier but it's a law so you may have to fight it in court.

Under Penal Code Section 12031 (g) a firearm is consider loaded when there is a live round of ammunition “…in, or attached in ANY MANNER to, the firearm”. Using certain accessories which attach to the firearm and are designed to store additional ammunition (speed loader anyone?) may cause the firearm to be "loaded". Under Penal Code Section 171(e) a firearm is loaded whenever the firearm and the ammunition are in the immediate possession of the same person.

Specific purposes

The legal authorization to transport a “concealed handgun” without a permit in your vehicle applies ONLY while going to or from the specific places, and for the specific purposes, identified in Penal Code Section 12026.2. These purposes are going hunting, going to a range, going to a gunsmith etc. It is illegal to transport a concealed pistol in your vehicle for GENERAL PURPOSES (such as self defense), even though it is unloaded and locked in a separate container. In other words, if you forget and leave your handgun in the truck after coming back from the range, and later drive with it to the grocery store, you are unlawfully transporting the pistol.

Do you feel lucky?

California Penal Code 12025 reads: “Any person who commits the crime (sic) of carrying a concealed handgun and ammunition for that handgun…in his/her vehicle may be subject to a FELONY enhancement if the handgun is not on file (registered) in the Department of Justice’s (sic) Automated Firearms System.” In other words, if your Smith & Wesson M&P 45 is not registered, you are subject to a potential felony conviction just for having it unloaded and locked in a box in your vehicle if you are not on your way to the range.

In case anyone wants to test these laws you may want to check out these links.

• Bureau of Firearms - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General
  This is the Bureau of Firearms Home Page. Get the forms to register your handguns.
• Firearm and Gun Law Lawyers and Attorneys in California CA | Find the Best Lawyers, the Top Attorn
  Firearm & Gun Law Lawyers and Attorneys in California CA @ US Lawyers Database | Attorneys Directory.
• California Gun Attorney - Home
  Firearm and Weapon Lawyers for 27 years. Read our detailed information about California and Federal Gun laws.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

I would assume then that while Im hunting, carrying it unloaded on dirt roads and such would be ok because Im in the process of hunting. I was wondering about the holster. Its not attached to the revolver. Just to be on the safe side, I may keep the loops empty too. Thanks for the info John. No need to tempt fate.

[ShooterJohn]

That was my point Grant just to be safe. I don't care if someone wants to temp fate or hire an expensive lawyer because someone didn't learn this when they joined whatever law enforcement branch. There are lots of extenuating circumstances that can make what appears to be nothing into a very big deal. For instance all of the medical marijuana card holders would never take pot into a National Forest or onto a military base or other federal land would they? That would up the penalty for that nothing charge of having your ammo attached to your gun. If you are out hunting and on your way home get pulled over and happened to have dad's or grandpa's old unregistered pistol along with you then it's a felony and again the charge sticks. It really doesn't hurt to be more cautious rather than telling that officer, "I know the law and you're wrong." Yeah, that always works.

[Rimrock]

Hmmmm--------- Maybe I should just give my handguns away.

[ShooterJohn]

Hey Rod, if they're locked in a box with a padlock then there is no reason for them to look inside.

[rustygun]

Good looking yote for sure but I'm with most a wonderful rifle.

[Bisley]

I was taught my hunting partner years ago a great little trick/idea. Go down to the local thrift shop and pick up a $3-$5 old briefcase with the number locks. Then play with it while watching a good Clint or Duke movie until you figure out the right code and change it to your code. You now have a good sized handgun case (I can usually fit 3 or 4 including my two 8-3/8" Smiths). I usually leave two of the three numbers "on" so I only have to roll one dial on each side to gain access to it, which takes all of about 30 seconds and why I have no clue why so many people bitch and moan about having to lock up their handguns. And best of all, when you get pulled over, it just looks like a briefcase or something your laptop is in and never even comes close to raising any red flags. You can keep your hard plastic boxes that have GUN written all over them, I will never use them again for pistols

Oh, and nice shooting, but what's the matter? Was your .50BMG in the shop?!

[Rimrock]

I know, John. Thanks anyway. That comment was just out of frustration at the confusing laws. I have a very secure lockable box.

[Thumper Dunker]

So if the quiver is atatched to the bow and theres arrows in it, its loaded?

[Bisley]

So if the quiver is atatched to the bow and theres arrows in it, its loaded?

If you are capable of concealing that bow, quiver, and arrows while wearing just your blue paint and loin cloth, I don't think ANYBODY will ever give you any trouble

[modoc squeek shooter]

In fact TD in some areas the nice policeman might even ask you for a date lol.

[Recon]

So one thing everyone has to remember in relation to the loaded vs not loaded debate in this thread, there is the letter of the law, and there is the spirit of the law. A guy who has earned an honest living his whole life, isn't acting like a jerk, and isn't breaking any law except maybe speeding, or who has the misfortune to be involved in a traffic accident that casuses a police officer to see what's in his car/truck after a day of hunting, is very likely going to get the spirit of the law applied to him. And in that case, the rifle as shown in that photo might result in an admonition and a teachable moment.

Conversely, someone engaged in criminal behavior of a more serious nature than speeding, say perhaps DUI after a day of hunting, would get charged.

If a veteran CHP officer told someone on this forum that's not a loaded gun under Ca law, I would immediately suspect that CHP officer took one look at the guy who was asking the question and concluded the spirit of the law would prevail in his case.

Some cops might even give good behavior points for collecting the empty case.

[jawbreaker]

The loaded gun thing all depends on how the LEO interperates the laws. The anal hole fish cop that hassled me and Marcelo last year said a gun is loaded when you have ammo in one of those sleeves and the CHP cop that stoped after the fish cop pulled us over didn't think the same way.