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#1 acousticmood

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

Hey folks - haven't posted for awhile. I've not done much in the field lately but spent most of my time shooting clays and recently got started into lever action silhoette shooting. I took a '94 30-30 that I had never shot to the match yesterday and beat the crap out of myself. So I like the reach of the 30-30 but I need to be able to dial down the loads so that I can shoot it all day.

So I'm all but decided to take the plunge. Of all that I've read I've been able to understand just a little and it seems like the Dillon 550 is a good way to go. So I'm looking for one now - but at 400 just for the basic I'm going to have to boil the frog slowley so to speak (if that metephor does not resonate with you let me know and I'll explain - it is an absolutely necessary tool for a happy marriage). Of course I'll find one and then get it home only to find out I need the left handed caliper wrench in order to make it work.

Oh well - this should be fun.

#2 KNOCKED UP

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:56 AM

If you are just getting started in reloading, I would stay away from the dillion 500.
If you are reloading just for hobby, I would reccomend RCBS equipment.
And as far as shooting all day, maybe you could step down to a .243 cal.
Tom

#3 Braz

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:02 PM

To be perfectly honest I haven't a clue what you are looking for. Are you looking for a load, for a reloading setup or what? As to shooting the 30-30 in a lever action silhouette match and beating the crap out of yourself I just don't understand. All silhouette matchs I hve shot are done offhand an recoill is really not much of an issue. I suppoe maybe you need do find someone who know how to shoot to show you how. You are doing somethign wrong if a 30-30 is kicking your butt. Adn Tom has some good advise.
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#4 ratassassin

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:18 PM

Dillon progressive presses are great for loading large volumes of ammo quickly. But if you only need 50 or 100 rounds to shoot each weekend, a single stage press like an RCBS Rock Chucker IV is fine and it's simpler to use. I've loaded a couple thousand rounds with mine and it works great. I think it's easier to learn the basics of reloading with a single stage press. And many will say that you can load more accurate rifle ammo with a single stage press, although die hard Dillon aficionados may dispute this.

If the recoil is beating you up, maybe consider a Limbsaver slip on pad or Pachmayr might make a recoil pad for your specific .30-30.

#5 tawnoper

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:29 PM

I think it's easier to learn the basics of reloading with a single stage press.


+1

Also...for a 30-30 I'd rather use a single stage press anyway.

Dillon progressive presses are great for loading large volumes of ammo quickly.


Once they are setup to run a specific caliber. Breaking them down and setting up another caliber is time consuming.

#6 ShooterJohn

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:56 PM

Once they are setup to run a specific caliber. Breaking them down and setting up another caliber is time consuming.


+1 And just a major pain in the butt for more than one specific load in one caliber.

#7 acousticmood

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:24 PM

Thanks all - Braz I really didn't have a specific question because I don't know what to ask at this point. I just wanted to get some responses and these are great. I'll look away from the Dillon and into something else - thanks.

As far as the recoil goes - I'm pretty sure it was a good kick. I did adjust the pad on my shoulder after the bruising set in but it still had a pretty good recoil. I was using these Fusion rounds:


Product Number: FA3030A
Web Product Title: FA 3030 WIN RIFLE 150 FN
Item Price: $18.57 $17.11
Availability: In Stock
Shipping Weight: 1.20 lbs.
Flat Nose Soft Point

• Caliber: .30-30 Winchester
• Grain: 150gr
• Bullet Style: Flat-Nose Soft Point
• 20 Rounds per Box

I thought I could re-load down do something that doesn't kick so much but still reaches out to the rams. These loads just seem like too much for the sport - and certainly too much for my shoulder. But if you guys don't notice any recoil from the 30-30 then perhaps my mancard is in jeapordy. I certainly hope not!

Thanks - I look forward to learning.



#8 KNOCKED UP

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 01:59 PM

A.M.
I have a 30-30 Winchester that I got from my father years ago.
I haven't shot it in more than 25 years, but as I remember, She kicked like a mule.
I would suggest moving to a .243 cal. or a .223 cal
It would be much cheaper than reloading equipment, and they shoot very flat for those 300 yard plus shots.
If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask, there is a lot of talent and wisdom on this site, and we
are happy to help.
Tom

#9 ratassassin

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:14 PM

Good advice. Here's a comparison of recoil of various calibers. http://www.chuckhawk...ecoil_table.htm

Looks like your .30-30 is putting out about 10.6 lb/ft of recoil energy with a 150 grain bullet, which isn't too bad considering a .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet is putting out about 17.6 lb/ft. By comparison, a .223 Remington as Tom mentions has very little recoil and is very comfortable to shoot a lot in one session.

Bear in mind that perceived recoil is increased with a light rifle or poorly fitted stock, too. And if you hold your rifle loose to your shoulder, you'll feel more of a kick than if you hold it in tighter. Learned that the hard way shooting my 12 gauge.

#10 acousticmood

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:24 PM

Yeah - I think I was a little sloppy in my mount. I remember learning that lesson from the 12 ga. myself.

thanks for the website Big Shooter.

#11 tawnoper

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:38 PM

I would suggest moving to a .243 cal. or a .223 cal


Just going by memory, but I'd guess a 30-30 and a .243 have pretty close the same amount of recoil. Obviously a .223 has much less.

One of the nice things about hand loading is you can tailor your loads. You can make some pretty mild loads or even some reduced loads that would recoil substantially less than a standard load.

#12 acousticmood

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

Yep - I'm looking at a reduced load. Most of these guys use different loads for the different targets (e.g. different for the 25 yard chickens than the 200 yard rams).

This game is cowboy lever action so I'm not sure the availabitiy of rifles in 243 or 223.

I did find some reduced recoil factory loads that use a 125 grain bullet. Maybe I'll try that while I'm getting my reloading kit together.

#13 dabob

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:33 PM

If you are only shooting 200 yards and less a lighter weight bullet will work fine and your rifle will kick less. If you can find a 30-30 bullet in 120 gr to 130 gr and reload a minimum to medium load that should lower your recoil quite a bit.

#14 Braz

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:12 PM

But remember if you go to a lighter weight bullet you may be hitting the target, but you gotta knock it over. much less than 150 grains will have problems with tht ram at 200 yards. He is a heavy devil at around 50-60 pounds. Talk to some of the other guys you shoot with to see what they are shooting. You can probably even get a few rounds frm them to try to see it they work for you. I know at my range all the guys would be happy to give you a couple of rounds to try if you are looking for something with less recoil. they may even be happy to give you some tips on holding the rifle so the recoil isn't an issue.

#15 Bisley

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 04:45 PM

Check out this page (if it goes through)

H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf (application/pdf Object)

#16 clampdaddy

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:40 PM

At a local military bolt action rifle match that I shoot occasionally a lot of the old timers use reduced power loads pushing heavy cast bullets. It sure is funny seeing those old 30-06 and 8mm rifles going off only to hear the report of something more along the lines of a .22 mag. Lol!

#17 dabob

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

But remember if you go to a lighter weight bullet you may be hitting the target, but you gotta knock it over. much less than 150 grains will have problems with tht ram at 200 yards. He is a heavy devil at around 50-60 pounds. Talk to some of the other guys you shoot with to see what they are shooting. You can probably even get a few rounds frm them to try to see it they work for you. I know at my range all the guys would be happy to give you a couple of rounds to try if you are looking for something with less recoil. they may even be happy to give you some tips on holding the rifle so the recoil isn't an issue.


If they use the same rams as they use in the big bore rifle silhouette a 125 grain bullet should knock it over pretty easy at 200 yards. My 6mm Remington with 100 gr bullets knocked the rams over about 80% of the time at 500 meters when I first started shooting silhouettes.

#18 dangerranger

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:53 PM

If I remember right the Fusion rounds are FAST. Like the Hornaday Light Magnum loads. If your mount was a little sloppy once you likely bruised your shoulder and the rest of the day was spent pounding it! The 30 30 is not known as a hard kicker, But in a light carbine length gun with magnum rounds I'm sure it wasn't pleasant. Ive shot Cowboy Silhouettes a couple of times, and the winners were shooting 30 30s, and 45 colt lever rifles. A 24 to 26" barrel will do wonders for your off hand aim. Cut felt recoil, and move the report further away from your face. But your carbine length gun will give you a great place to start. Lighter loads will take those chickens and pigs down just fine. Save the heavy stuff for the turkeys and rams! Good ole Remington 150 grain should take down rams just fine, till you get your reloading bench going. Rem brass is also a good start.

Your best bet tho is going to be upgrading your factory sights, practicing your mount, and steadying your aim. The guys that make it look easy have spent way more time on there technique than there ammo. At first find a target that's about 3" and 100yds away. Try to mount and hold on that target. At first it wont happen, but it will come. when you get to where you can hold on the target for just a bit then add dry firing practice into the mix. If you can give this just 15 min a day your score will come way up! Kind of like practicing your golf swing.

My thought on progressive reloaders is that Dillon is the best! But they really shine at making mass loads of pistol loads. Not so much at making good rifle rounds. Any good single stage press will load better rifle ammo. I would not shy away from even the Lee press kits. I have several presses and usually set up two so I don't have to reset the dies. DR

#19 Desert Fox

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:10 PM

Have you look at 125 grainer. I used to load them for my model 94 both for plinking and hunting deer.

I'm just down the road from you. Give me a howler if you need help.

#20 acousticmood

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:34 PM

Once again - great info thanks all.

So hear's my first move. My 30-30 is a 94 centennial model with 26" half oct. barrel so its a good foundation for the game. The trigger pull though it crazy at around 10 pounds or so (just a guess. So first thing I'm going to do is send it to the smith for a trigger job and a good tang sight. They are running around 6 weeks or so, so at the next silloehute match I'll use my 1873 carbine in 357.

I would like to get into a set up and maybe load some 357 rounds for the next match, but we'll see.

The folks at the match are extremely helpful and good mentors as you suggested Braz.

Big Shooter - definitely going to go to a lighter or smaller round like the 125 g.. Thanks for the offer of help. I'll send you a pm in the near future when I have a handle on my questions.

Thanks all!

Good shooting,

George

#21 Stan

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:30 PM

You might want to try Midway USA
28.99
Ten-X Cowboy Ammunition 30-30 Winchester 173 Grain Lead Flat Point Gas Check Box of 20
Product #: 811743 Ten-X Ammunition #: 30300173 UPC #: 854129001048

#22 dangerranger

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

Once again - great info thanks all.

So hear's my first move. My 30-30 is a 94 centennial model with 26" half oct. barrel so its a good foundation for the game. The trigger pull though it crazy at around 10 pounds or so (just a guess. So first thing I'm going to do is send it to the smith for a trigger job and a good tang sight. They are running around 6 weeks or so, so at the next silloehute match I'll use my 1873 carbine in 357.

I would like to get into a set up and maybe load some 357 rounds for the next match, but we'll see.

The folks at the match are extremely helpful and good mentors as you suggested Braz.

Big Shooter - definitely going to go to a lighter or smaller round like the 125 g.. Thanks for the offer of help. I'll send you a pm in the near future when I have a handle on my questions.

Thanks all!

Good shooting,

George


That sounds like a great place to start! [ sights and trigger]. I dry fire a lot in the week before a match. It gets me tuned to the trigger and sights I'm going to use. But you will also need some range time to figure the sight changes for the different distances with your chosen ammo. With only a couple weeks to prepare Id stick with a known load. No need to add load development into an already crowded schedule. If you are going to stick with the 30 30, work on its load. Good luck and be sure to let us know how you do. DR

#23 ehd

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:58 AM

recoil for a 30-30 is the same as a 243 as Tawnoper said. your form might be haywire,as they are usually comfortable to shoot. keep your eyes open for a 25-35, as they are a whole lot of fun to shoot. no recoil and much quieter on the muzzle.

#24 Shoot-it

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

A.M.
I have a 30-30 Winchester that I got from my father years ago.
I haven't shot it in more than 25 years, but as I remember, She kicked like a mule.
I would suggest moving to a .243 cal. or a .223 cal
It would be much cheaper than reloading equipment, and they shoot very flat for those 300 yard plus shots.
If you have more questions, don't hesitate to ask, there is a lot of talent and wisdom on this site, and we
are happy to help.
Tom

what 30/30 kicked like a mule ?????????you must be real sensitive maybe take up knitting.

#25 LR shooter

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:09 AM

I'm with you B K , kind of think he has neaver been kicked by a mule.

#26 Baja_Traveler

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:30 PM

I shoot a Buffalo Bill Commemorative in our CLA matches. Heavy and slow is the way to go - for me, I cast a Lyman 170 grain (311041) and 26gr Varget. Mild recoil - and has enough oomph to knock rams down.
Gotta remember that pretty much anything can knock a ram down if it is hit high in the back or the horn, it's the marginal hits you have to take into account - hit it in the pecker, and tell me if 125 grains is enough (hint: It isnt...).
If you ever get the chance - come on down to PALA and join us! The match is this coming Sunday...

#27 Braz

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:19 PM

You got a web site?

#28 acousticmood

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:24 AM

Hey shooter - thanks for the invite. Is it near Pala Casino? That's about a two hour drive for me, depending on the location of the range.

#29 tawnoper

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:23 PM

I shoot a Buffalo Bill Commemorative in our CLA matches. Heavy and slow is the way to go - for me, I cast a Lyman 170 grain (311041) and 26gr Varget. Mild recoil - and has enough oomph to knock rams down.
Gotta remember that pretty much anything can knock a ram down if it is hit high in the back or the horn, it's the marginal hits you have to take into account - hit it in the pecker, and tell me if 125 grains is enough (hint: It isnt...).
If you ever get the chance - come on down to PALA and join us! The match is this coming Sunday...


Your silhouettes have peckers?

#30 Baja_Traveler

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

Yep - the rams have peckers, and you can't believe the number of times people hit right in that general area! The ram in my small bore load block is a scale representation:

Posted Image



Lol - drop the rifle just a teeny bit at firing, and thats where the bullet ends up.

The Pala range is on the hillside straight in front of the casino on Henderson Road.

Pala's website is: http://www.ncsapala.com




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