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Single Digit Sd, Es, Mad. Is It Necessary


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#1 Desert Fox

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:31 PM

Reloading is about consistency. The way to make your reload consistent is to control or eliminate as much variables as possible. You know you achieved them once you start getting single digit reading from your chronograph. Now, you might ask your self is it really necessary. The answer to that is "it all depends on your accuracy requirements". To a Big Game Hunter, Predator Hunter, Plinkers and recreational shooters probably is not a necessity. But to a target and bench rest shooters, it's a must.

Now my question is, who among you go out on a limb to achieve this pinnacle of reloading. What are the methods you use to get there. In my experience, single digit SD, ES and MAD is easier to achieve with small caliber cartridge, specifically the short and fat cartridges like the 308, WSM and 223. Large magnum cartridge is almost impossible.

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Not quite with 7WSM. First shot on a clean barrel is always a bit slow but the next four shot is unbelievably consistent.

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#2 modoc squeek shooter

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 09:56 PM

I agree with you D F and I have read your posts. It is all what turns your crank. I myself have not evolved(not sure of spelling) but I do apreciate people like you who call our attention to the things that make a clean kill possible. Ed

#3 Divernhunter

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 01:52 PM

I have been doing a bunch of hunting load testing with Nosler PAR and Swift A-Frame bullets for my Africa trip. I have Loads in single digit numbers(4-9) and up. The funny thing is that some of the teen numbers outshoot the single digit ones by quite a bit as far as accuracy. That should not be but it is. I found it quite easy to get single digit loads in my 338win mag with 225gr Hornady and Swift A-Frame bullets and 200gr Nosler BT bullets. All are 5 or 10 shot groups. In the other rifles(257Roberts/25-06 and 6.5X55) I also got single digit loads but sometimes the teen loads shot better for me.
338Win mag--225gr Hornady 71grs IMR4350Av 2811fps-ES 11- SD 4
338Win mag--225 Swift A-Frame- 71gr IMR4350 Av2834fps ES 22 SD9--A cloverleaf group
257Roberts -120gr Nosler PAR- 47.5gr H450 Ave 2916fps ES 34 Sd 14--Super one hole group
257R--120gr Nosler PAR-43gr--IMR4350- Av2803fps ES7 SD7-Just ok group

I have so far tested 16 loads for the 338Win mag, 16 loads for the 6.5X55 with 120 and 140gr bullets, 16 loads for the 25-06 with 100 and 120gr bullets, 15 loads for the 257Roberts using 100 and 120gr bullets. All bullets were Nosler or Swift with the exception of the 225gr Hornady in 338. I have more loaded to test in each except the 338win mag. I also have 300win mag(9 loads with 150gr Nosler PAR), 30-06(130 & 150gr), 7mmRem mag(140gr), 204Ruger (32 & 40gr) and 223(55 & 40gr) loads ready to taest. I plan to do some others also but later. I find if I shoot too much at one time with the bigger stuff that I start effecting accuracy.
All loads are shot over a Oeher Research Model 33 Chrono at 20 feet approx. My Chrono does not have a printer but I write everything down for my binder. I am just using a bean bag under the front of the rifle. Each load is shot at a seperate target and marked for future reference. I may take photos of the targets later so I can reuse the targets. I will then put the photos with the data in my binder.

#4 Desert Fox

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:10 PM


Good observation DH. It is true that not all single digit ES and SD will automatically give you good group. In my experienced with my rifles, the double digit ES and SD will group just as well as the single one. A good example is my 338 Lapua Ackley. I could never get a single digit with this rifle no matter what I do. I think that just expected when you are burning 95 grains of slow burning powder like Retumbo to propel a 300 grain bullet down a 30 " tube. The rifle however will print dime size 5 shot group at 100 with boring consistency.

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#5 KNOCKED UP

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:18 AM

Is there anything that you haven't reloaded Doug.
It looks to me like you are obsessed.

Tom

#6 Frank

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:04 AM

It is true that not all single digit ES and SD will automatically give you good group. In my experienced with my rifles, the double digit ES and SD will group just as well as the single one


Yep, very true, and seen that a number of times

In my experience, single digit SD, ES and MAD is easier to achieve with small caliber cartridge


Could be, as I do not shoot my larger bores much any more, perhaps within the last 20 years or so? However, I have one load for my 300 win mag consisting of a 150 gr Nosler b.t.. with 76 grs of IMR 4831 that shot single digit #'s, sometimes only 1' per second deviation between rounds. BUT, while the accuracy is "good", I have other loads for it with double digit #'s that are more accurate. Which goes with your first statement at the top of my post here.

Again, it's probably been close to 20 yrs since I've shot my 300 mag. Got tired of replacing the fillings in my teeth. :signlol2iu:

#7 Fjold

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:17 AM

ES, SD, and MAD make the biggest difference at long range. 100 fps makes no difference at 100 yards but it is significant at 1,000 yards.

If you run a JBM Ballistics for a 142 grain SMK at 2900 fps and 3000 fps the difference in the drop is over 20 inches.

#8 Divernhunter

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:20 AM

Tom---There are a few I have not loaded for. If I can get my Model 71 Mauser in shape I will be looking for stuff for it. I do have a few rounds of original 11mm Mauser ammo for it. But it is collector stuff, not shooting stuff. Actually I am selling 8 of my C&R rifles----but then they are just doubles and triples of that model and I have never fired them. Need to help pay for the Africa trip. Also a couple of pistol scopes. But after looking at my house and garage you might have a point about obsessed. Only one treatment for that----More shooting and reloading.

Fjoid---I do plan to get closer than 1000 yards for my Africa hunt. I never enjoy shooting at game at 500-600 yards and 1000 is not in the picture with these rifles. "To me" hunting means getting closer even though I have had to take some long shots at pronghorns.

My old chrono does not have the MAD feature but I do get enough info for what I need.

Frank--I too am getting away from the mags. I guess it is age and the body getting tired of being beat up. I am not sure I am looking forward to 50 rounds of 300Win mag and 50 rounds of 7mmRem mag to test in a day. I do not hunt allot with them. My 257Weatherby is not bad compared to the others. I do plan to take the 338Win mag to Africa with 225gr Swift A-Frame bullets.

#9 Frank

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 10:26 AM

ES, SD, and MAD make the biggest difference at long range. 100 fps makes no difference at 100 yards but it is significant at 1,000 yards


May be... But just how often are game shot at 1,000 yards? Or even half that distance for that matter? Just because we can do something, doesn't mean we should.

#10 Desert Fox

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 11:08 AM

ES, SD, and MAD make the biggest difference at long range. 100 fps makes no difference at 100 yards but it is significant at 1,000 yards.

If you run a JBM Ballistics for a 142 grain SMK at 2900 fps and 3000 fps the difference in the drop is over 20 inches.


Frank,

You shoot enough long range competition to know the importance of having a consistent load.

DH,

Your 338 Win mag will serve you well in Africa.

#11 tawnoper

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:40 AM

I think the goal to any person trying to assemble the best loads possible is consistency throughout.

Something to remember when shooting over a Chronograph is, like anything mechanical there is a certain degree of tolerance that has to be taken into consideration. I know Oehler, who makes probably the finest Chronographs, states their Chronographs are accurate to I believe 20fps @3000fps or more when the screens are a foot apart. But if you spread them 8ft apart you get a much higher degree of accuracy (3-4 I think). Obviously not all Chronographs have that feature (separate skyscreens).

When you start trying to maintain single digit deviation make sure your equipment is up to the task.

#12 Frank

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

But if you spread them 8ft apart you get a much higher degree of accuracy (3-4 I think)


That was always my belief also, but just not sure where I heard or read that any more. Was a long time ago! The one I used for years was also an Oehler with separate screens that had a long over all spread. Again, cannot remember how many feet long though. Ugh!

#13 Divernhunter

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

Mine is a Oehler Model 33(an old one like me) and the screens are 4' apart. It has seperate screens. I look for a low SD and ES but I also test for accuracy with a 5 shot group. Sometimes the teen SD loads are more accurate so that is what I use. I also want higher speeds with my hunting loads. Given the choice between 2 loads that are almost as accurate as each other but one is 150+FPS faster I will take the faster load to hunt with. Especially when they are less than 2800FPS loads. Example I have 2 loads for the 6.5X55 that shoot just about as good(both excellent) but one is 2880 and the other is 2670FPS. I am going to use the 2880FPS load to hunt with due to less holdover needed. Also better penatration on bigger game.

#14 Frank

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 09:58 AM

Frank--I too am getting away from the mags. I guess it is age and the body getting tired of being beat up.


LOL.... Exactly, DR, exactly :good:

Given the choice between 2 loads that are almost as accurate as each other but one is 150+FPS faster I will take the faster load to hunt with


Yep, me too...

If you run a JBM Ballistics for a 142 grain SMK at 2900 fps and 3000 fps the difference in the drop is over 20 inches.


I just re-read my note(s), & didn't mean to sound disagreeable on velocity on Fjold's comment above, as I actually totally agree on obtaining the highest velocity possible in any given caliber & load. I think most on this site would know that by now. lol




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