17 replies to this topic

[Rimrock]

I have call a particular spot on a ranch several times. There is a pretty sharp little draw with a creek at the north end of it.Here, the creek is running west.

The creek makes a bend to the north just to the right of the trees.


This morning i set up against a fence post in about the center of the first picture. Started with jackrabbit distress. In a few minutes a coyote crossed the draw just about a far away as I could see.It showed on the right, took a look, and retreated. About then, two showed up on the skyline about the second post from the left in the second picture. They stayed on the skyline (about 250 yards) and milled around. I went to coyote pup distress. More milling around and they finally retreated. Back to picture one.Two showed on the ridge just left of the top of the tree on the left. Rabbit nor coyote distress moved them. They finally moved down off the skyline and sat down. I figured about 200-225 yards. Cranked the scope up to 9X and rolled one into the draw.

Now. My thoughts and questions. As said, I have called a number of coyotes from this location. Have killed four. Only one has ventured close to the creek and he was young and dumb. Most of them will hang up at 3-500 yards and bark. I have about decided that the creek is a territorial boundary and they are reluctant to get near it. I have had the same thing happen, but to a lesser degree, at another spot on this creek.

I am interested in input from some of you experienced callers.

[Loopdog]

Interested also...

[mtn dog]

Is there any spot where you could set up that is on the far side of that creek and closer to where they hang up? If your suspicion about the creek being a boundary is right, you need to get the creek out of the situation.
Or hunt for hungrier coyotes.

[Frank]

Wow, Rod, that is a tough one indeed... perhaps one of, if not thee toughest understanding of coyote behavior. Perhaps?

Unless one is intimately familiar with an area and it's pack(s) of coyotes living there, it's more likely to be anyone's guess and/or reason(s) as to why the coyotes are hanging up IMO.

Territory may certainly be one of them, however, I read one study (that I actually remember(lol) a few years ago, claiming not necessarily either. AND, one of the items from that study was, that the females were actually the aggressors in their specific area, where as the males acted totally indifferent in protecting their space. It was almost as if the males were saying: "hey, I'm bad, and can kick your azz, and so what"? LOL That may (or may not) explain why females will sometimes come to a challenge call. We killed at least one female answering our challenge call, which may also semi support this claim. Maybe?

Here's another that is somewhat similar to your scenerio... Friends and I have one honey hole loaded with coyotes. BUT try calling one in. Over perhaps the last 5 or 6(?) years we had managed to call roughly a half dozen dogs in one part of the larger area. Most of those called in were during the earlier years when we first started hunting there. I believe we've only called in 1 the last 3 years however, and the coyotes give us hexx when we do start calling, no matter the sounds we use.

Then we will drive across the main dirt road that divides our overall hunt area, & go approx 1 - 4 miles away and call in coyotes every year on this "other side of the road". Both places get called about the same amount from us. So what's up with that? It sure has us puzzled that's for sure. LOL

I guess that is part of the fun of hunting predators and the challenges they can bring. I for one have no clue, but sure drives me crazy whenever they do hang up far out like that. Like Ken stated, perhaps changing up your postion a little may help? Maybe! LOL

Good Luck

[Thumper Dunker]

Intresting. Maybe the owner of that area was there and you never seen him or them. But the other coyotes new he was there.I have barked , puppy yips ect and had them take of like rockets like they do not want to be next. I would get back aways and just watch that place just to see what happens . might take a long while but might be worth it. Hey tell me where that place is and I can go and figure it out for you.

[tawnoper]

Just my opinion...

Personally, I really don't put too much credence behind certain theories. Some I do a little more because they've proven themselves to me over time. A couple I do tend to favor are hunting on days before and after a storm...or right after a really windy day. Also, I prefer hunting around the new moon phase instead of a full moon. But things like boundary lines and the such I really don't buy into too much. Maybe they have meaning or maybe not? It sure doesn't hurt to know about them and maybe there is something to it...but just based on my own observations, there isn't enough solid facts there to make it seem like it really holds water. I enjoy reading all the magazines and all the articles now available to predator hunting...it's just that I don't believe everything I read. I've had coyotes working in nice and steady, wind in my face, sun at back and all the sudden have then stop, turn around and haul ass the other way for no apparent reason to me. Why? Who knows. They obviously saw something or smelled something they didn't like.

I will say a couple things about what you did say.

"In a few minutes a coyote crossed the draw just about a far away as I could see." One thing that I've noticed is on stands where you can see a long ways off, or as far as you can see, you're bound to see more stuff...because you can, obviously. You're going to see everything that is within view...whether it's leaving or coming in. A lot of stands that do not afford that kind of field of view you're probably only going to see customers, not the ones who turned around before they got into view cause they ran into an invisible wall.

Just by looking at those photos, those draws look like a perfect bedding area for coyotes. You may be bumping them from a nap. From the date on your photo that night was a full moon. Those coyotes may of just went to bed with a full gut and were not interested...or maybe they were up against a boundary line lol.

just my couple pennies.

[Frank]

DAMN... Ed absolutely nailed it IMO... on ALL of it! Storms, Moon phases, full gut, bedding area, bumping them from a nap, not enough facts(on territorial) etc. And I believe is at least part of the problem(s) I am having with the one area I mentioned above. Tough to sneak into, in other words.

I also do not put a lot of stock into territorial areas, never have, but was too chicken to say it. I know, hard to believe, but I was actually trying to stay in the middle on this one, sorta speak (& shouldn't have)... Anyway....

[Shoot-it]

not to get off the subject but a lot of older people believe in the moon phase my dad will only have cattle butchered on the new moon he says the meat is better.

[Rimrock]

Interesting comments, Guys. And thought provoking. I have usually made this stand the first thing in the morning. Usually before sunup. The wind is usually light then and out of the west. The wind and terrain makes my setup the most practical. The only alternative would be to wade the creek and that would put me too close to where I expect the coyotes to come from. Too, the wind would be iffy.

Yes, the moon was as full as it gets. There was no-one on the ranch but me so there was no interference. Full gut? Entirely possible as the cows are calving and afterbirth is readily available. This has not always been the case though. It seems too early for a nap, but they have had a bright night for feeding.

One other thing. Yesterday not one of them barked at me. Previously, I would get the barking response when I used coyote vocalizations.

Thumper, you might have to get a bigger bow to shoot that open country.

Thanks folks. Comments are always welcome. As soon as I get coyote behavior figgered out, you can look for my book. LOL

[dabob]

What type of call were you using, hand call or electronic?

[Rimrock]

Dabob, Electric. Foxpro FX3.

[Braz]

Ha, there is your problem. You aren't using one of my killer double reed calls.

[modoc squeek shooter]

This is very interesting thread. I am not coyote caller by any means so this is a learning experience for me. I do know when cows calve there are always coyotes around, lol me being an old cowboy. Although most cows after they calve they eat the after birth, I think they do it to keep prederators from their young. Not sure if coyotes are territorailor not, but I do know that when I ride out to check calving cows the coyotes will follow my dogs and try to ru them off. Hell I could kill them with a pistol if I carried one lol. I just sec my dogs on them and they run them a while lol. I thought about stakeing a cowdog pup out and hunting over him lol. I have rode to with in 10 yds of coyotes when calving cows. Damn I should carry a pistol lol. Ed

[Shoot-it]

You should kill everyone of those bastards. Holsteins will eat the afterbirth to i think it's instinctive.Dogs just love the stuff they eat it like it's beef jerky.
Rimrock where is the picture of your coyote ?

[modoc squeek shooter]

Its not just Holsteins,m Shoot It cows do that lol. But cyotes are always present, they might be 300 yds away. I never pack a rifle when I am a horseback. I should but I do that . I have killed hundreds of coyotes in my life time, 67 years, but I have never called one. I want to do that. Ed

[ehd]

i have an old study that uc davis did about coyote territory floating around in my files, I might have even posted it. They concluded by radio marking a bunch of coyotes is that they frequent into other coyote areas. matter of fact what I could see on the map was they went where ever they wanted when they wanted. they did seem to have a territory when the den was established to preserve hunting rights. thats why are howler works well in those months.
Back to the origanal question, could be they are full, walk into them or a strange air current set up by the creek that allows them to smell you . with that photo it looks like depending on the time of day warmer air could be moving toward the cooler air in the creek bottom. just a thought.

[Frank]

Eric, that study sounds very agreeable to the one I read & mentioned above, especially about the females being the aggressor instead of the males. The study I read, may have included the denning season, & why the females were the protective ones around their den (in that area)... and possibly why they might be more apt to come to a challenge call? Maybe?

Btw, that study I read (3 or 4(?) yrs ago, took place towards the eastern part of the country & by a major institution of some sort. That I do remember! lol

Just thought of this. In the early 2000's, the Arizona F&G did a very in depth steady on several dozen radio collared coyotes over several years. I spoke to one of the leading officers a few years ago that worked on that. Bottom line was, some of the coyotes traveled as far as 40 miles each day. With that in mind, many so called territories "should" have been criss crossed, thus making these "coyote territories" less prevelant... at least in my small mind anyhow ?

Oh, I have "heard" of other studies where coyotes supposedly traveled much further. Likely depended on food, water & shelter availability, or lack of, of course! Not to mention, like domestic dogs, some coyotes may like to wonder off while others are home bodies. Maybe!?

Interesting...

[ehd]

I think that the main reason coyotes have such an impact on blacktail deer is the deer live in an area of about 1 square mile the total of its life an a coyote goes as far as it has to to make a meal. Doesnt take long to clean out a given area.