46 replies to this topic

[stephen722]

WOW sxs got this going, now help me out! the only thing rifles and shot guns have in common is the bang when disscharged! most feild guns shoot low! may be left or right but most allways LOW! modern shot shell ammo with plastic shot cups shoot really nice patterns ( 7.5 or 8's) at 30 to 40 yards even if shot out of a piece of black pipe! now let sxs eplain the rest, choke, back boring, forcing cone removal, and the pi$$ing match can go on and on. if the dove goes PUFF, you hit him, have fun stephen

[clampdaddy]

But he did check it. Not knowing where your shotgun hits is just like that same guy using a laser bore sighter and calling it good without shooting it.
Busting moderately thrown clays at 20 yards can not even begin to compare to a full speed bird flushed at 25 yards and/or shot at 30+ yards. I wish I had photoed the paper we patterned the O/U on. It looked at 20 yards but had 3 pellets in the upper 18" of the 36" rosin paper at 40 yards. And if you still think that makes no difference, I feel sorry for you, and more sorry for whatever is being shot at.




Sure beats the Hell out of dredging the sewers with the bulk of so many others who don't care. It's a pretty small man to criticize another for teaching/doing what is only right.

Bis, I like you and think that most of the time you offer great stuff here but the fact remains that you still haven't shown that a single person said that it was ok to go out with an unproven gun and that you jumped on sxs for no good reason and that's all there is to it. If you want to feel sorry for anyone, feel sorry for all of the ducks, geese, pheasants, dove, and crow that I send off to the great beyond every year, and trust me, I don't cripple very darn many.

[Bisley]

First off, nobody "jumped" on anybody at all. I simply said that at this point in the game you were better off with an old (proven) gun than a new one. There are many reason for that. One being that if at this close to the season someone has not even figured out what gun they were going to shoot, I highly, highly doubt that they even care where it shoots when they get it. And judging by the responses of members here who think it is "just a shotgun" or "it bust clays, it's ok", I am absolutely, 100% correct. This time of year is also filled with families cramming in the last of the summer vacations, along with honey-dos before the rainy season, not to mention it is prime time for weddings. What does that have to do with shooting? No spare time, that's what. Most everyone I know is lucky if they have enough time to shoot once just for practice, let alone retest a gun if it is not "on". And with so many shotguns being off (which the people that own them would know are off if they ever checked them, but they have not and still maintain that their gun is 100% on) it should have been thought of long ago, not now. And I hate to be the one to keep saying it, but busting clays with the boys is NOTHING like wingshooting. A pellet or two that will bust a clay will most likely only wound a bird, or even worse, cripple it to die later. Believe me, I understand birds will get crippled, but we should do everything in our power to make sure it does not happen, that's all. I absolutely hate seeing crippled birds (but realize it happens) because not only does that bird die later unclaimed, we also lose the other bird that takes its place in your bag, plus it means an extra bird that will not breed again for next year. And while that may not sound like much, Statewide, it is a very, very big deal.

I live to hunt birds and small game, literally, and do every thing I possibly can to make sure it is done correctly and with respect by myself and others. I have always placed hunters on a higher standard, as we should be. But just like every rifle should be sighted in, every shotgun should be patterned if only for the sole purpose of knowing where it hits. I think Frank covered that excellently, thank God at least one person knows what they are doing. And it should be done at the last minute with no time to correct any problems before heading out and saying "Oh well, it's close enough". That sure does not sound like "jumping" anybody to me. And it definitely does not sound like a bad thing to promote. No?

That's all that is being done clamp. Without sounding like I'm preaching, we treat deer and other large game like gold but tend to have a it's-just-a-bird-attitude. Even though there are many more birds than larger game, it is still just as alive, and deserves just as much of respect and forethought before being shot at. That's how I see it as that is how I was raised and how I am continuing to teach it. I guess I just never realized it was such a bad thing or that so many were not taught it. That's a crying shame . Seeing the mentality of so many about shotguns reminds me of hearing/seeing people on a public range and is almost enough to not want to be known as a (common) hunter.

[Frank]

So if a guy gets a brand new gun, takes it out for a round of sporting clays or informal target shooting, and smashes birds, he is still in the wrong for not putting his gun on paper before he goes out for a hunt? Sorry but I'm calling B.S

I never said he was wrong... try " R E A D I N G " the posts... it was blind, & again, "idiotic" LUCK... Period! I see LOGIC has nothing to do with this... for LOTS of folks.

[clampdaddy]

At this point in time you would be better off doing yourself and the birds a favor by using your old shotgun. Buying one right now makes about as much sense as buying a deer rifle the week before the opener. Should have bought it in March or April since you would be hard pressed to check your favorite loads for reliability, patterning, and POA vs POI, not to mention stock fit. And not being able to check any of that means a lot of misses, and even worse, a lot more wounded fly-offs. But hey, what do I know, I can't even tell my from a hole in the ground, right? . So buy them now, or better yet, wait another week or two

Bis, here was your first post on the subject. If you would have left it at the first sentence or two I would agree that you were just making an observation but when you go on with the comments twards the end it sounds like you're riding sxs because of the disagreement you guys had on the thread about old shotguns. Maybe that wasn't your intent but that'd how it came across to me anyways.

I didn't want to go here but it looks like that's where we ended up so, do you think it is more immoral to hunt dove with an unpatterned shotgun than it is to take minors out to teach them about the ethics of hunting while at least one adult is consuming alcohol and takes a pic of an open container next to his pistol and fallen game?

[clampdaddy]

I never said he was wrong... try " R E A D I N G " the posts... it was blind, & again, "idiotic" LUCK... Period! I see LOGIC has nothing to do with this... for LOTS of folks.

Oh, I read the post, I just didn't agree with your choice of words. Idiotic is a very harsh word to use for someone that doesn't pattern their gun. I pattern all of mine but I would never call someone idiotic for not doing it. Like someone mentioned earlier, most people never pattern their guns, but I don't think that makes them all idiots.

[Bisley]

I didn't want to go here but it looks like that's where we ended up so, do you think it is more immoral to hunt dove with an unpatterned shotgun than it is to take minors out to teach them about the ethics of hunting while at least one adult is consuming alcohol and takes a pic of an open container next to his pistol and fallen game?

When the guy that just made a 1 shot hit (through the heart) on a 50 yard rabbit with a 3" pistol and only had it because I told him he may as well drink because he ain't shooting anymore for a while after a shot like that, and he was neither driving nor did he have it before shooting and did not touch a gun for the next two plus hours, yeah, I'm OK with it. But I definitely can see why and where you were going. It is surely something you would not know had you not been there in person.

[clampdaddy]

That's just my point Bob. I'm not going to sit here and try to say that it isn't something I've never done myself, but I never said anything about that picture until now because sometimes its best to give someone the benefit of the doubt instead of breaking their balls.

[Stan]

I think a Skeet Shoot is in order the contenders must shoot a gun never shot before but can pattern just before the shoot 30 min or less winner gets i told you so rights
Prado Olympic Shooting Park anyone?
17501 Pomona Rincon Road
Chino, CA 91708 909-597-4794
Personally I shot Skeet fit is more important than anything Oh except keep your head Down and Follow-through on your Swing! Yes is nice to see if you really have a hole that the clay flew threw
Last stage (Skeet) step 2 feet closer to the low house and call Pull! if you are lucky then 2 feet closer you will learn what a Fast swing is pattern or no pattern at that distance
Want a challenge shoot station 3 from the fence line the range master at South Coast Gun Club (yes I'm that old) Jim showed me it can be done he even had me getting a few 8 foot lead

[sxshooter]

Just my 2cents: patterning a gun on paper or a plate may or may not be helpful in determining fit.. Gun fitting is much more than taking an aimed shot at a static target. Shotguns aren't aimed, in the classic rifle method, they are pointed. Your eye should be following the target, not staring at the front bead. That's why the funky glowing front beads are a joke. With a well fit gun, no front bead is needed.

22 days ...

[Bisley]

I think a Skeet Shoot is in order the contenders must shoot a gun never shot before but can pattern just before the shoot 30 min or less winner gets i told you so rights

Without trying to step on your toes here, this is exactly the point I was making. It takes a lot more than just one pattern or 30 minutes to correct a problem. If your gun is shooting way off in any direction. You first must find out if it is the choke, the ammo (wad) or just the barrel itself. If all your chokes shoot off in the same place, you have now ruled out the choke. You now must see if it is the gun or the ammo/wad. You can try a different brand which will in essence change wad manufacturers, and see what happens next. Also, different manufacturers (brands) have several wad styles in the same weight category. One may work, or none may work. Only way to know is to try them. And lastly, it could be the gun itself (bent or misaligned barrel) or a severly poor fit, or even as mentioned before not realizing your shooting from one side but dominant with the other side eye.

So you can see why it takes more than just one shot or 30 minutes to be absolutely sure you are hitting where you are pointing. And if you have never patterned a shotgun before, you are in for quite a shock. There is definitely a distinctive POI that shows up very clearly once on paper. And when it is 12-18" off (as I have seen) it really gives you an excellent idea of why you should must check them. And that is why those of us that know start it in the off-season with lots of time to get it dialed in and right. You may get lucky and have it right from the start, but as you can see from the responses of those that have actually checked theirs, it is not nearly as frequent as one would believe. Hope that helps a little bit to understand why.

And by the way, I couldn't shoot out there with you anyway since I would only shoot with the rounds I hunt (handloaded) with since I know where they hit, and they are too large of shot and way, way, way,way too quick for the park to allow me to use

[turkeyman85]

To be honest I've never patterned my shot gun untill I started turkey Hunting! Now I always check, I didnt check it for the first turkey I ever shot but I could tell you that was pure luck. I skinned it just to check on how "good this after market choke" was and I only found two pellets in the brain. Now after checking my shot gun I make them do black flips. Well I also made some cosmetic improvements on my gun since than also. But I shot the factory barrel and I shot high. The only reason I did was because and old wise guy told me that shot guns are made to shoot a bit high and in turkey hunting you want the to be as straight as possible. Hence why the market started to flood with specific shot guns for turkey, Which are made to shoot straight line of sight. So Take it from someone that has learned something over time.Not saying that I still dont cripple birds or that I shot them stone dead before testing patterns. It just helps in the long run,even if its not noticable to you or your comrads.

[clampdaddy]

To be honest I've never patterned my shot gun untill I started turkey Hunting!.....

Same here. I "patterened" my first gun on cereal boxes and checked for regulation on dirt ditch banks when I was a kid but I never did a real paper test until I decided that I needed a turkey gun. The funny part is that I built a turkey gun and have never taken it turkey hunting. Lol! Just before all of these new high tech turkey guns came out I got to thinking about what would make for a handy little lap gun but still be able to put a maximum number of pellets into a turkeys head and neck. I ended up buying a 21 inch, factory iron sighted, smooth bored, IC choked slug barrel for my 870 and I sent it off to get threaded for tubes. Luckily for me the first choke tube (Remington Super Full) and load (3" Remington buffered #4 lead) were such a great combination that I didn't look any further. Even better yet, the same choke and sight setting works well with 3" Remington #4 buck loads for coyote hunting.......haven't shot a coyote with it either. Lol!

[sxshooter]

7 days ....

Yuma and Blythe will be hot, but maybe not as hot as the last couple years. I usually avoid the openner, due to the fact that I hate the heat, but I'm bored and need something related to hunting. Dove shooting might give me a fix until my first real bird hunting starts in North Dakota.

[stephen722]

yea and I get a day off on the first! hunting a ranch pond with two fellows who tend to shoot poorly going to be a lot of feathers in the air! have fun stephen

[sxshooter]

5 days...
I made my motel reservation in Yuma.

[sxshooter]

2 Days... It's basically here. I leave for Yuma in the morning. Looks like they had a small thunderstorm go thru today. Still, it should be a great openner. Good luck to you that are going out.