21 replies to this topic

[DirtyDave]

Going to be working up some loads for my 2 new rifles in 6mm. One will be a dedicated Coyote Rifle and the Other for Deer. I hunt both lead and lead-free zones, so I have some work to do. If I put enough time into it, my plan is to have a lead and a lead-free load for each with minimal POI change.
I always have good luck with Hornady and Nosler bullets. So I chose 105gr A-max / 90gr E-tip for one rifle and 75gr V-max / 55gr BT lead free for the other.
The lengths are pretty close between the lead and lead free for each. I pick up one of the rifles this weekend.

Left to Right; 105gr A-max, 90gr E-tip, 75gr V-max, 55gr Ballistic Tip lead free

[Rob]

I'm very excited about your research.
I too like the 6mm round. I am at the same beginning point with the 55 gr Nosler BT Lead Free bullets.
My previous rants will indicate that I am starting with 44 gr. of Varget, but have no range evidence to share just yet.
I plan to get to the range in a week and will share what I find out.

[Desert Fox]

Great cartridge choice Dave. Don't forget the 87 grain V-Max. Great for long range work also.

[DirtyDave]

Great cartridge choice Dave. Don't forget the 87 grain V-Max. Great for long range work also.

Yeah, I will probably give that one a try too. I know it works well for you

[Divernhunter]

Just my thoughts and not to start a fight:----With the small caliber for deer I have my 6mmRem loaded with 100 or 95Gr Nosler Partitions. I would never use a target bullet for hunting unless it was in my 50bmg. I do not care for the non-lead Nosler bullets as you cannot drive them as fast as the Hornady GMX or the Barnes TTSX bullets. The trouble with the e-tip bullets is no grooves in them for the bullet material to go to thus they build pressure faster. Nosler says only to use their mid level loading for the PAR/BT bullets as max for the E-Tip bullets. The non-lead bullets need speed to open well. I also have a good load with the 55gr NoslerBTvarmit bullet. I have to get time after my load work-up for my Africa trip, plus the 7Rem Mag and 300win mag I am revisiting for speed and accuracy to work up 6mmRem loads for 58,65,87 and maybe more bullets out of my rifle. I have some loads but want to do an in depth work-up. I have not even started on non-lead bullets for it and probably will not due so as I avoid the no-lead zone for now.

[Rob]

I took the Desert Fox suggestion a couple of yers ago with regard to the 6mm-87 gr VMax with 44 gr of H4350. WOW was I a happy camper.
It may be an over kill...but on windy days when the 40 and 55 gr bullets start going left and right, the trusty 87 gr remains on track.
I only have 600 loaded up for a windy day! It's a real flip-flop when a varmint is contacted with this load.

[Desert Fox]

Glad it works for you Rob.

E-Tip is like the X Barnes bullet of yesteryear. Backward thinking on Nosler part.

The band on Barnes and GMX is there to reduced the bearing surface contact between the bullet and the rifling grove, resulting in less friction as the bullet travel down the bore. Less friction means you can push these monolithic bullet faster just like a conventional jacketed bullet without pressure issue.

[DirtyDave]

Funny thing happend. I loaded up some ammo to test in my Rem 788. Measured the chamber, loaded up 20 each NosBT and V-max's. Seated them .02" off the lands to start out. Getting ready to hit the range saturday afternoon when something occurred to me. The 788 has a detachable magazine! It's my only rifle with a det.mag so I didnt think anything of it at first. Tried to load the mag and everything is way too long haha. At least I caught it at home and not at the range haha. So pretty much whatever I load for this rifle has to be 2.820" MAX OAL.

Had to seat them all deeper and didnt go to the range. I'll go this weekend. Shooting saturday and scouting for deer sunday.

[KNOCKED UP]

Good catch Dave.
Tom

[Frank]

my plan is to have a lead and a lead-free load for each with minimal POI change.

That's exactly what I f i n a l l y accomplished with my 223 and 22-250 earlier this year. Nearly drove me to taking up golf. I could have just stayed with the non lead loads in both calibers, but I HATE non lead bullets, ESPECIALLY Barnes, and do not want to use them if I do not have to, much preferring to stay with lead bullets for outside the Condor range. But that is just me of course.

ALL bullets & loads, lead & non lead for both calibers are with Nosler bullets. I get excellent accuracy & extremely high velocity with all loads (1 load over 4500 fps in the 250). I am very skeptical of any bullet performing any better, which I have tried some with dismal results in these 2 calibers & their rate of twists. My son's 270 wsm is another story & likes Barnes... unfortunately (for me).

[DirtyDave]

I cant find any data for the 90gr E-tip in the 6mm. Its not on Noslers website. I put an email in to Nosler, so we'll see what they say.
I read somewhere that you can use the 90gr Lead bullet data, just use the mean of the min/max as the max for lead-free. Sounds reasonable. I could just start 2 grains less than the min for a lead bullet and work up from there.

[Frank]

Well for my 2 rifles, 1 in 223 & the other a 22-250, there was little to no difference in powder charges between lead & non lead bullets in same bullet weight with Nosler Bullets.

Even with bullets slightly more or less in weight (than your 90 gr), or even made by a different bullet company altogether, often times has little difference in powder charge. The weight, style & manufacturer does not need to be exactly the same in other words to use the same load, or close to it. I also would not start 2 grs below min. But that is just me of course.

Have you looked on Hodgdon's website for your loads? Them and the Nosler book have been my 2 favorites over the years, and should at least put you very close to where you need to be.

[DirtyDave]

Yeah I use the Hodgdons data for everything, except there is nothing in there for the 90gr E-tip in 6mm. So you think -2grs is too low? Just start at the min for a 90-100gr lead bullet then?

[Frank]

Yes, IMO, it seems 2 grs below "minimum" is too low.

In looking at both sources, the Hodgdon bullet weight of 87grs comes closest, and the Nosler book a little more difficult with 85-90 & then 95-100 gr data.

And of course, me being unfamiliar with 6mm loads makes it tougher (for me) to guess. However, with that said, & in the 87-100 gr bullet weights, 2 powders that I probably would start with are IMR 4831 and RL 19.

It appears somewhere between 45-49 grs with RL 19, and approx 43-48 grs with IMR 4831 for the 90 gr bullet.

Those are my guess(es), and all the best on your load development. (Patience & Perseverance, as we never know how long it will take us, right?!) Hang in there!

[DirtyDave]

Just got an email back from Nosler. They said the Max for the 90gr E-tip is -2grs under the max for 90gr Lead bullets

[Frank]

That's cool...

Just remember that "the proof is always in the pudding"! ALL manuals are guidelines only. In other words, -2 under "book" max may, or may not, be correct in a specific firearm. I've seen wide swings many times, in many firearms over many years when it comes to max loads. An actual charge of 1/2 - 2.5 grs over or under "Book" max is (almost) semi-common, but definitely not unusual!

Do the normal load work up in 1/2 gr increments, and you (& your firearm) will do fine. Again, just patience & perseverance!

Look forward to your load testing results, and Good Luck.

[DirtyDave]

I'll be loading some up tonight and heading out tomorrow to go shooting

[Desert Fox]

Just got an email back from Nosler. They said the Max for the 90gr E-tip is -2grs under the max for 90gr Lead bullets

E-Tip is like the old Barnes X- bullet. Take Nosler's advice and start even less than their recommended starting load.

With 87 grain V-Max, I use 43 grain of IMR 4350.

[Frank]

Take Nosler's advice and start even less than their recommended starting load.

??? I don't see where it says that anywhere on this thread. But hey, I miss lots of things

[Desert Fox]

??? I don't see where it says that anywhere on this thread. But hey, I miss lots of things

If you go to Nosler site, you'll find data there for 90 grain Partition and Ballistic Tip. Nosler said the max load for E-Tip is 2 grain less than the max for 90 grain Ballistic Tip/Partition load. Dave failed to mention if Nosler told him what the starting load is. Lot's of discussion there at the Nosler forum from members shooting E-Tips experiencing excessive pressure even at the recommended starting load. Just giving Dave a heads-up.

[DirtyDave]

Yeah I have heard about the E-tip having higher pressure than lead typically, that is why I am being a bit more cautious with it. Like always, I'll start low and see what happens.

[Frank]

If you go to Nosler site, you'll find data there for 90 grain Partition and Ballistic Tip.

Oh, ok, that makes sense... I thought I was needing new glasses there for a moment. lol

I actually had forgotten about their website & will have to try and keep that in mind in the future... Thanks!

p.s. You guys are wayyyyy up past my bed time. Then again, I guess most folks bedtime is after 9:30 pm. lol