19 replies to this topic

[mtn dog]

Worth reading.From the Sacramento Bee:http://www.sacbee.co...n-declines.htmlThe article points mostly to 'loss of habitat' as the reason but mentions the impact of mountain lions.IMO, lost habitat means less food for plant-eating critters but not necessarily for predators. Less available space would concentrate the lions, making it that much harder on the deer (and then the goats, the cattle, the sheep, and the family pets).

[seebass]

I saw the headlne as we walked into the store.... I laughed and mentioned to my wife, couldn't be the inept managment of the mountain lion.... Or wildlife officials....

[KNOCKED UP]

Very interesting artical but,I totally disagree with their lack of habitat claim. I blame dfg mismanagment, and predators, two, and four leged kind.We have lots of national forest, not that we get to use it as National forest. Political predators are a big problem. Tom

[Bisley]

You have to understand something though, repealing the mountain lion law would be admitting wrong doing. This reminds me so much of when they banned a bunch of area in Glamis to protect the milkweed plant. They claimed riders were causing the demise of the plant so they declared a bunch of land off limits. A few years later the milkweed was dying out because as it turned out all those riders were actually helping to spread the seeds of the milkweed, and without them it was dying. And the worst part of it is that rather than admit to being wrong (and re-opening the area) they would rather watch the plant (they vowed so hard to protect) die off. Same with these nut jobs. They would rather watch the deer numbers fall which will eventually make the cat numbers fall, rather than admit to being wrong. Again, nature must pay the price for mankind's ego. A crying shame indeed.

[dabob]

Three of the ranches I get to call coyotes on are huge, 17,000 acres to 40,000 acres. These ranches are pretty much the same as they were back in the 1950s and 1960s. They get very little deer hunting pressure and there is not very many deer on these ranches. The reason there are not very many deer on these ranches in not from hunting or the loss of deer habitat.On one of these ranches on the first day we called it last winter we had 18 coyotes come into our calling and we saw 3 coyotes as we were driving through the ranch. So we ended up seeing 21 coyotes that day and we saw two deer.When I first started deer hunting in the 1960s we didn't see coyotes very often at all. I remember my dad and uncles getting real excited when they did see a coyote.When the deer numbers were at their peak there were very few coyotes and mountain lions around.

[mtn dog]

PETA, HSUS and all the rest of them would read that article and think we need a new Voter Initiative to outlaw deer hunting in California to save the deer from extinction.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

When the Deer run out, the predators can turn to more important prey.. like the Bunny Humpers.

[jeager]

Hunted the same 30 sq miles in D5 these last 13 years. Only ONE forky bagged after aprox 600 hunter/days.This extended family has been quite satisfied with their take and coming back to "established" camps since the '40s. Eight years ago a retired state employee asked me if I noticed any change since "blue tongue" disease.All I could say is that I never heard of it. There have been plenty turkey, bear, fox, redtail hawk, and skunk sightings, though.

[ratassassin]

Just wait until the wolves arrive.

[Tuolumne85]

A lot of the habitat loss isn't from human encroachment as much as it is from the loss of riparian habitat in the foothills. Chapparal regions that used to burn every so often and overgrowing and choking out a lot of the forage in their winter ranges. It's everywhere. White thorns and manzanita tend to destroy old habitats.

[Thumper Dunker]

Too many trees and too many lions and way to morerons in power. Im seeing lion tracks in orchards now.

[mtn dog]

Too many trees and too many lions and way to morerons in power. Im seeing lion tracks in orchards now.

Are you an e-caller man or a mouth-caller, Thumper?

[Braz]

As to the lion issue, since the law is there because of an innitative, it's not something that can just be forgotten about. Evn if F&G manages agreed that there are too many lions they can't jut easily open up lion hunting.On huge issue that was menioned in the article was the excessivenumbfr of does. Back in the early 50's there was a big doe hunt and for a number of years after that the deer herd relly expanded. Now that is something that could be addressed. but the public furor was huge after that doe hunt years ago.

[mtn dog]

Venator Californus * - the next species headed for extinction.* Latin for California Hunter

[ratassassin]

Braz is right. Once a California ballot initiative is passed by a public vote, it's very difficult to get it repealed. So the voter initiative which passed the mountain lion hunting ban will be tough to overturn. DFG couldn't ignore or change the ban if it wanted to, although it can allow depredation control.The ballot initiative mechanism was added to the California State Constitution in 1911, so this has been going on a long time. In my opinion, it's the closest thing to mob rule that you can have, which is one reason why California ends up with crazy populist laws that stay on the books forever. (The other reason, of course, is the California legislature itself. But I don't have the energy for a rant about that tonight.)"ONE hundred years ago today, California voters added the ballot initiative to the State Constitution, allowing citizens to use petitions to bring proposed statutes and constitutional amendments for a public vote. But as California, the nation’s most populous state, marks this anniversary, the accumulated impact of direct democracy has made it virtually ungovernable." http://www.nytimes.c...acy-crisis.htmlHere's the California ballot initiative process. http://www.sos.ca.go...ative-guide.htmIf you thought the loonies were running the asylum, you were correct.

[jim d]

Just remember that F&G has no control over hunting in calif. They only have authority for game laws and enforcing them. It is county supervisors that have the authority to say that hunting can or can't be held in their counties. As long as there is such a large number of does to bucks things are never going to change and with what happened when the state did have doe hunts and the people came down on county supevisors there isn't any chance that the doe to buck ratios are going to change as the people will never let it happen. I have hunted D-5 for years and have seen the buck population fall every year.What really bothers me is the way the forests are managed as the area on Monumental Ridge has become nothing but a mess due to downed trees,rotten trees and the Forest Service has let it happen.

[Bennie]

Been Deer hunting public property for years. Seen Blue Tongue wipe out a huge heard in my life. When I say wipe out, I am talking from seeing 100 deer a day to 10 a season. Are Mountain Lions a problem now yes. The worst mistake I have ever seen is no climb fences in migration areas. One area i use to hunt, I seen 500 deer a night several times, while dog hunting. Seen a road get built. Then houses along the road.Then people tired of their flowers and gardens getting eaten. Then no climb fences getting built. Then bunch's of dead deer in the road. Then NO DEER.

[Thumper Dunker]

Are you an e-caller man or a mouth-caller, Thumper?

mouth caller but I carry a 44 mag in my lap in some places.

[Karl]

Way too many coyotes. Estimates are they kill half the fawns born.Doe population is out of control. The ratio should be around 45/55Bucks/Does. You can't do anything about the does but you can get outand hunt coyotes. Save a fawn, kill a coyote this weekend.

[Loopdog]

Three of the ranches I get to call coyotes on are huge, 17,000 acres to 40,000 acres. These ranches are pretty much the same as they were back in the 1950s and 1960s. They get very little deer hunting pressure and there is not very many deer on these ranches. The reason there are not very many deer on these ranches in not from hunting or the loss of deer habitat.On one of these ranches on the first day we called it last winter we had 18 coyotes come into our calling and we saw 3 coyotes as we were driving through the ranch. So we ended up seeing 21 coyotes that day and we saw two deer.When I first started deer hunting in the 1960s we didn't see coyotes very often at all. I remember my dad and uncles getting real excited when they did see a coyote.When the deer numbers were at their peak there were very few coyotes and mountain lions around.

I agree i happen to be able to run around a ranch like Big shooter is talking about. To many cats!