30 replies to this topic

[MonkeyChunks]

Ok heres the story. Saved up my money and looked around for a nice predator rifle, Finally decided on the Rueger mini 14/223.The gun was a good price under 500 used, but nice and clean.I had my FFL look it over as he has the exact same rifle, he says it nice, bore is clean and straight and go ahead and enjoy shooting.I went to the local gun show in Del Mar Ca, picked up 500 count 223 factory ammo, Specifically got 223 factory not reloads as i dont trust them.Bring the ammo home, load up a few magazines and grabed the wife and headed to the shooting range to put some rounds through the new girl and thats when it happened.We shooting nicely for a few minutes and on round 40 BLAM.... and then a small segment gets ejected. I immediately start looking on the floor to see what it was but couldnt find it, I tell the wife load another round and continue firing, She says it wont load, i freak out and put the rifle on safe pull the magazine and open the port, theres a round sitting there and it wont feed into the barrel. I remove the round and look down the chamber for light but no light. poop this cant be happening not my new rifle. I grab my gun lock and feed it into the barrel to see how far the obstruction is and it was bad. I take the rifle to the shooting range crew to look at and they verified there was a round stuck in the barrel. I take it to the gun smith and he looks at it, YEP theres half a shell lodged in there. He explains that the round seperated in half wedging half into the barrel, So now he needs to extract that obstruction.I tell him the story of the ammo, he looks it over and it good ammo a bit worn and slightly discolored but good ammo. I contact the company i bought the ammo from at the show and they said they have no liability and iam on my own.What do you guys think? Freak accident or what ?Either way i am paying for repairs and i havent even gotten to enjoy the gun.

[docskinner]

Define "Factory ammo" better. Federal? Rem? OR "Joe's Ammo Factory and Ditch diggin" type factory factory.

[Shoot-it]

you mean the bottom of the case just above the rim separated like the bottom half came off?If so just ram another empty case in there and it will come out or can't you run a rod threw the barrel and knock out the case.

[docskinner]

Sounds like a case head separation. So either reloaded brass (Like a few companies do with "remanufactured" factory ammo) that has been well used or over pressured, or both, , or an over pressure that caused separation in a new case. "a bit worn and slightly discolored but good ammo" doesn't sound like factory new loads.

[Bisley]

What do you guys think? Freak accident or what ?

I think that what you have described is just one of the reasons I reload. You could have gotten a good foot in the door with some used reloading equipment with your current gunsmith charges. But as far as that case goes, there's only two reasons for it to split, abuse (high pressures) or M A N Y reloadings. JUST THE FACT ALONE THAT WHEN YOU CALLED WHOEVER MANUFACTURED IT AND THEY DID NOT ASK FOR A LOT NUMBER OF SOME KIND SHOULD BE A HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG!!! There's my first clue it is probably not new stuff. If it had been one of the major brands, they would have asked for a lot number, asked you to send in the rest of the boxes (for liability and to test) and surely offered replacement rounds. Unfortunately, this is gong to be a live and learn experience (sorry to say), but just take comfort knowing nobody was hurt. You can take your chances and shoot the rest of them up if you want (I wouldn't) or just save them so that later after you get your reloading equipment you can salvage the primers and the bullets and toss the rest. Best of luck, and sorry it had to happen this way. Glad to hear no injuries were obtained though.

[Frank]

I used to shoot handloads in my handguns yrs ago, but now shoot mostly factory ammo in my handguns & shotguns, & only on semi rare ocassion in my bolt guns, shooting handloads almost exclusively in these. When I had my mini 14 I shot all factory ammo. With that in mind, the most problems I've had over the years was with factory ammo. Miss fires, no powder in the shells and jamming. Stuff like that. I questioned your ammo being factory fodder also when I first read your Your notes, for the same reasons doc & Bob mention. Just glad no one was injured.

[Shoot-it]

My friend had a head case separation on his 7 mag the case broke right above the belt on the case.We had nothing to knock it out so we used a spent round and jammed it up into the broke one and it came out.His problem was the case was reloaded way to many times and now he will will only use once loaded brass for his hunting rounds.The only case head separation I had was on my sig mosquito 22lr it blew powder onto my face .

[clampdaddy]

Did the smith check the headspace when he looked over the rifle? For a brand new case to separate I would suspect a possible headspacing issue. Also was the ammo true .223 or was it 5.56mm?

[Lang]

I think that what you have described is just one of the reasons I reload. You could have gotten a good foot in the door with some used reloading equipment with your current gunsmith charges. But as far as that case goes, there's only two reasons for it to split, abuse (high pressures) or M A N Y reloadings. JUST THE FACT ALONE THAT WHEN YOU CALLED WHOEVER MANUFACTURED IT AND THEY DID NOT ASK FOR A LOT NUMBER OF SOME KIND SHOULD BE A HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG!!! There's my first clue it is probably not new stuff. If it had been one of the major brands, they would have asked for a lot number, asked you to send in the rest of the boxes (for liability and to test) and surely offered replacement rounds. Unfortunately, this is gong to be a live and learn experience (sorry to say), but just take comfort knowing nobody was hurt. You can take your chances and shoot the rest of them up if you want (I wouldn't) or just save them so that later after you get your reloading equipment you can salvage the primers and the bullets and toss the rest. Best of luck, and sorry it had to happen this way. Glad to hear no injuries were obtained though.

Years ago I bought a new Remington 870 TB Trap. I also purchased several boxes of Winchester AA trap loads as well as several boxes of Remington Target trap loads(the name escapes me). After using up all the AA we moved on to the Remington. The second shot out of the box worked the action like an Auto Loader showering me with shards of brass and nearly blowing the bolt out of the gun. Needless to say I returned to the Gun Shop I had purchased everything from. They took the Shotgun and Ammunition, Sending everything off to Remington. I not only got a Letter of Apology from Remington, but my Shotgun was repaired and I received a Pallet of Trap Loads delivered to my door. I think the least the Seller should do is ask what the lot No. was and refund your money.As a side note Mini 14's are good for either .223 or 5.56 so that was not the problem.

[zippy1970]

Monkeychunks , It maybe a million to one shot but check your bolt for cracks / splitting . Why ? I got a used 14GB in the early 90s . My friends & I put many thousands of rds through it ( a case in a day shoot was easy to do ) . ( remember when ammo was cheap ? And if you worked at a store we got it even cheaper ) . But in 06 / 07 I took it out and it would fire , FTF , fire , FTF . Took it apart and there was a crack on the top & bottom of the bolt , making it wider than spec . Hence it would not go into battery . Again , its a long shot but very easy to see . I may have it some where . If I find it , I will post a pic of it . Andy

[tawnoper]

I went to the local gun show in Del Mar Ca, picked up 500 count 223 factory ammo, Specifically got 223 factory not reloads as i dont trust them.

Separated case. Buying ammo from a gun show you really don't know what you're getting. JMO

[MonkeyChunks]

Ok, so heres more info.The ammo is Lake city Ammo in Rem 223Manufacured in 2000 My mini 14 is 223 Monday i pick up the gun with the removed round and i will post a picutre of the round so that everyone can see.I am just glad no one got hurt and that the gun didnt blow up.But it is like you guys said, when you buy ammo fron Gun shows you need to pay close attenton to what you get.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

I hope they check the rifle for proper head space. That is indeed a rare ocurrance with a Mini 14. Mine digested everything. Keep us posted.

[KNOCKED UP]

Like you said,Glad no one got hurt.Tom

[Lang]

Ok, so heres more info.The ammo is Lake city Ammo in Rem 223Manufacured in 2000 My mini 14 is 223 Monday i pick up the gun with the removed round and i will post a picutre of the round so that everyone can see.I am just glad no one got hurt and that the gun didnt blow up.But it is like you guys said, when you buy ammo fron Gun shows you need to pay close attenton to what you get.

Unless you have the Target Model your Mini will shoot either 5.56 or .223. Check out Rugers Web Site.

[seebass]

I always thought you shouldn't shot 5.56 out of a gun chambered in .223, but it was ok to shoot a .223 out of a 5.56..... Isn't the legnth of the entire 5.56 a tad longer and that's where the possible problem is between the 2? What's the correct answer?

[Fjold]

5.56 Nato is loaded to higher pressure than the 223 round. Also the chamber of the 5.56 round is cut differently. The headspace on both cartridges are the same but the 5.56 has a longer leade (throat) which reduces the pressure quicker.Here's a picture of the two chambers to show the differences: The 5.56 chamber leade is shown on the top and the 223 chamber is on the bottom.

[MonkeyChunks]

Ok i got the gun back from the gun smith while i was in Arizona, the wife picked it up for me.The extractor wasnt damaed and the barrel was undamaged but it did cost me some money to get it removed.The gunsmith said the gun is in great condition and mechanically its sound, meaning he thinks its the ammo.Heres the F#$%ing cherry on top. I went to the shooting range tonight and well 36 rounds into shooting and it happened again, i lost it man i about flipped out. I calmly packed up my gear and my son and we exited the lanes, went straight to the staff and had them take a look, Sure enough stuck shell, but this time i found the other half that was extracted and i plan on taking this issue up the chain as far as i can, this poop isnt happening anymore thats for shore.Heres the shell that was removed the first time, the other shell needs to be removed again for more money.http://i876.photobuc...er/100_0542.jpghttp://i876.photobuc...er/100_0545.jpghttp://i876.photobuc...er/100_0543.jpg

[OrneryOlMofo357]

Man, id sure get rid of that ammo if its the sane stuff that you used last time. If its different ammo and did the same thing Id let someone else check it out. Case seperations arent good. Good luck.

[docskinner]

I would be contacting Lake City -Does this happen with any other 5.56 ammo? You could cast your chamber and check teh throat. Could it be you have a very short throated version and getting the bullets jammed against the rifling and causing an overpressure? Or maybe your batch was loaded a little over COAL specs and is causing it? Try micing a few rounds and see? Just brainstorming -

[tawnoper]

What makes you think Lake City is responsible? That is the problem buying ammo from a gun show...you don't know what you're getting. That ammo could of been loaded in some guys garage. Maybe he got a deal on a bunch of LC brass?It doesn't look like a case separation due to repeated headspace issues...that usually happens down lower on the case. Maybe you have some crap brass or some hardened up brass?

[Frank]

Maybe you have some crap brass or some hardened up brass?

Excatly what I was wondering. Had it happen to me more than once. Certain lots of brass by ANY Manufacturer, including custom brands, can be bad & easily split. It is a possibility anyhow.

[Bisley]

Not trying to be the biggest prick on the thorn bush here, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice......................... If the gunsmith told you it definitely wasn't the gun, that only left one culprit. When I pet a dog that bites my hand, I sure don't stick it back through the fence expecting it to be licked.

[stephen722]

quit shooting that stuff ! something is bad wrong here. like some body over anealed the case's to get um to break that high. that part of a case should be hard as a whores heart. give um to the wife's boy friend, or buriey them, there's nothing to salvage if you take the barrle off and flick it with a small screw driver, it will likely fall out, sorry spelling bad on beer! have fun stephen.

[Frank]

fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice......................... If the gunsmith told you it definitely wasn't the gun, that only left one culprit. When I pet a dog that bites my hand, I sure don't stick it back through the fence expecting it to be licked.

Yup... My thoughts too! I started to say something similar but didn't, me being the nice guy that I am and all.

[Bisley]

Sure, make me be the bad guy, thanks buddy . I really didn't mean it rudely or disrespectfully. Just making a point and trying to understand why in the world you would make the exact same mistake twice in a row only to get even more angry?

[Shoot-it]

Please don't tell us you ran the same ammo threw it?If you did then what do you expect would happen the brass is to weak .

[Johnny Get Ur Gun]

OK, I don't know a lot about the difference between 5.56 and .223 Rem (even after trying to study the diagrams someone posted), but I do know that Lake City (Army Ammunition Plant) only makes military rounds. They may have been packaged up as .223 Rems, but they are 5.56 NATO rounds. Is it possible the differences in chambering and the higher pressure of the 5.56 round is causing the problem? I'd buy some cheap, actual .223 Rem ammo like American Eagle and give that a try. If you still have the problem, find a new gunsmith.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

Most Mini 14's are marked 5.56 on the barrel. I know mine was. It shot .223 fine.

[ehd]

looks like reloaded brass to me.I hope that you were not shooting the same ammo as the first time you had problems.if so ,what would be the reasoning behind feeling safe with some ammo that is blowing up in your rifle.! please throw that ammo in the trash while you still have the ability to do so.