39 replies to this topic

[KNOCKED UP]

I heard that the v max 87 grain bt. was a very goodflat shooter in a 243. Have you loaded them?How do they really shoot? I just ordered a box from Midway, so please be nice to me, and tell me how much I will like them.Tom

[Frank]

You're gonna LOVE them, Tom... even though you couldn't GIVE them to me. J.K. (as I no longer even own a 243)BTW, them coyotes ain't gonna like them one bit either.

[ehd]

55 grain Blitz kings if you feel the need for speed .

[Frank]

55 grain Blitz kings if you feel the need for speed .

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!

[DirtyDave]

Hornady bullets shoot well out of ALL my rifles. You should be happy with them

[Rob]

That 87 gr bullet is a terrific selection for my 6mm too!

[dabob]

When I could shoot lead bullets out of my 243 Win at coyotes the 75 gr V-Max was my favorite 6mm bullet for coyotes. Not very many exit holes and they made the best sound I have ever heard when they hit a coyote in the ribs.I just looked at my Hornady Reloading book and it shows the 87 gr Max loads at 3100 fps, the 75 gr Max loads are 3400 fps and the 65 gr V-Max maximum loads are 3600 fps.I am not sure if the 87 gr V-Maxs will have enough speed to kill a coyote.

[Desert Fox]

87 grain V-Max is an excellent bullet for 243. My friend and I used it effectively on jackrabbit and squirrels at long range. Mine is a 6MM Remington Custom Mauser with 10 twist Shilen. His is a factory Remington Varminter in 243 Winchester. I push this bullet at around 32 to 3300 fps using 43 grains of IMR 4350. The bullet is deadly accurate and devastating on games. It will explode on impact even on smaller games like squirrels or even crow.

[Bisley]

It will explode on impact even on smaller games like squirrels or even crow.

Oh yeah! I have turned rabbits completely inside out (got pics) with that round . I used to like the fact that they shot to same POI for me as the 90gr Speer's, when I could use lead to hunt pig and deer. Thanks again B....S bullets.

[Frank]

I am not sure if the 87 gr V-Maxs will have enough speed to kill a coyote

It will explode on impact even on smaller games like squirrels or even crow.

I have turned rabbits completely inside out

I just looked at my Hornady Reloading book and it shows the 87 gr Max loads at 3100 fps

All Excellent advice with the heavier 87gr bullet... And why one may not consider the much stouter, l a s e r trajectoried, 4000 fps 55 gr bullets on those heavy gamed coyotes. HOWEVER, the 87 gr bullets & McDONALDS do have 1 thing in common = GOLDEN ARCHES (trajectorys)

[Bisley]

I must confess to currently shooting 60gr Sierra HP's out of them now since I refuse to give in and hunt any kind of large game (deer or pig) with lead-free .

[Desert Fox]

The 87 grain V-Max when push at velocity above 3,000 fps is superior to any lighter bullet in this caliber. I've used it exclusively on my 6MM Remington ever since it first came out in the early 90's, as a direct replacement to the 87 grain Hollow point Match BT, that I had been using at that time. My rifle didn't even notice the difference after the switched. I didn't bother changing the recipe either - 43 grain IMR 4350, Federal 210M, Remmy Brass. I still have close to 800 Moly coated bullet in my inventory. I hardly shoot my beloved 6MM Remmy these days ever since the lead ban took effect. That's sucks because I really like using this bullet on vermin.

[Frank]

The 87 grain V-Max when push at velocity above 3,000 fps is superior to any lighter bullet in this caliber.

Sorry, Fox, but the ONLY thing the 87gr is "superior" over the 55gr is in Energy. It cannot even come close to the 55gr in terms of trajectory, at least out to 500 yards or there abouts. And it does NOT take a lot of energy to kill a 25 lb animal. SPEED KILLS.... Period !

[Desert Fox]

It cannot even come close to the 55gr in terms of trajectory, at least out to 500 yards or there abouts

That is of course if you limit your shot to 500 yards. 2 MOA of trajectory difference is nothing! as long as you know your dope, or your dial up. I'd much rather have the high ballistic coefficient of the 87 especially on a windy day.

[Rob]

Mr. DFI see you mentioned molly coated bullets.Are you a molly fan? I seem to read that it is a black or white preference for the folks that grace these pages...you either love molly or hate molly.

[Desert Fox]

Rob,I still use moly on all my varmint bullet.

[donkey12]

Accuracy kills.

[Frank]

2 MOA of trajectory difference is nothing

On a 4 or 5" kill zone at lets say 400 yards? That is a HUGE percentage difference, even for a dial up or better yet, "guessing" situation. But hey, whatever works. There will always be the light vs heavier weight debate!donkey12, accuracy is a given & of course extremely important, but can be had in most rifles and bullet weights. Like we always say, it's WHERE we hit them, not WHAT we hit them with.

[Desert Fox]

On a 4 or 5" kill zone at lets say 400 yards? That is a HUGE percentage difference, even for a dial up or better yet, "guessing" situation. But hey, whatever works. There will always be the light vs heavier weight debate!

Frank, I'm talking about trajectory not PBR. It's obvious your experienced or requirement for your 6MM bullet might be different than mine but as I alluded in my previous post, the 87 will do what the 55 can do best and more. I've shot a lot of squirrels with this bullet at over 500 yards and experienced first hand the devastating effect it does on smaller games. Too bad most of these hunt happened before the days of prevalent use of digital camera hence no picture to show here. The farthest shot I had with this bullet was on a crow perched atop a Juniper at a laser distance of 598 yards. Trust me, the bullet got there really quick. The crow exploded into tiny pieces of feathers upon impact.

Accuracy kills.

Jeremy, You coined it right! "Speed is nice to have! but Accuracy kills"

[Frank]

Jeremy, You coined it right! "Speed is nice to have! but Accuracy kills"

AGREED! (whew... I'm exausted)

[Bisley]

Accuracy kills.

PARTLY true! Accuracy of a bullet with reasonable weight, speed, and sectional density for the game you are hunting kills. A .22lr that consistently hit bulls at 250 yards may work at 5o yards on a coyote or larger game, but will do next to nothing at the aforementioned distance. But you can either R E A L L Y speed up that 40gr bullet or make it M U C H heavier at that speed at 250 yards, and it will work.

[Frank]

Ok, 2nd wind here... after I "thought" I was done. Ugh!

Frank, I'm talking about trajectory not PBR

Me too... The KEY ingredient to PBR is tragectory, that is achieved by VELOCITY... the 2nd most important item right after accuracy.I am referring mostly to the predator/varmint hunter, which the 87 gr was likely designed for & where ranges are normally UNDER 500 yards, not OVER 500 yards; which is another sport altogether as we both know. Also, this average Joe predator hunter normally does not have the time to calculate, adjust, take their time in aiming at their called in coyote. Ground squirrels & prairie dogs are another animal of course & is likely what you're mostly referring to. We are talking two different animals/types of hunting here. Anyone can plug in the numbers and will easily see the 55 gr bullet is not only superior to the 87 gr in terms of trajectory, pbr etc, but it is SUBSTANTIALLY superior. I will give one example. With both bullets sighted in 1"(+/-) high at 100 yards, the norm for predator hunting, the stats are:55 gr at 4,000 fps has an approx bullet drop of 13" at 400 yards.87 gr at 3200 (not 3100) fps has an approx bullet drop of 21"... Approx 8" MORE drop. At 500 yards the 87gr bullet falls off the charts it is so pathetic. It IS what it IS, no matter how much you want to change it or call it otherwise.

[ehd]

shoot the Berger 69 grain and have the best of both worlds.

[Desert Fox]

If speed is the only bases of what you perceived as bullet superiority, then you're right, the 55 is superior. But that is where it end. Let's look at the number and add the always present variable like wind.At 500 yards in a 5 miles and hour wind, the 87 will drift around 1.86 MOA, about 9.72" whereas the 55 will have 2.20 MOA (11.51 inches). Advantage 87 by 1.79 inches.At 500 yards, the 87 will have an energy of around 948 ft/lbs whereas the 55 will have 638 ft/lbs. Advantage 87 by a whopping 310 ft/lbs.The above example shows the superiority of the 87 over the 55. Increase the distance even farther than 500 yards and the 87 will say bye bye to the 55. Again Advantage for the 87.As I said, your bullet requirement is different than mine. The use of 55 grain bullet suit your type of hunting as 87 to mine. That's fine! but you can't convince me that the 55 is superior to the 87 in every way just because it can be driven faster when in fact the opposite is true.

[ehd]

meanwhile when you folks were worrying about all this heavy calculating, the coyote ran off. But i caught him with a snare when he went under the fence and popped him with a 22 short at 500 fps. wind drift marginal.

[Frank]

There ya go, Fox... I do agree, especially with our different needs on your last paragraph.I do want to address the wind, which again effects your situation more than mine. First, many predator hunters try & avoid hunting in the wind for the most part. Exceptions to everything of course. 2nd, lets take my coyote at 400 yards and have him running broadside from right to left on our pc. The lighter & faster bullet will arrive on target much sooner than the 87 gr will; a Big plus! A perfect example of that is the coyote in my avatar & is exactly what happened. Ok, I admit that was a semi lucky shot, but I was sure glad I was shooting a really f a s t bullet at that time. Anyway, you are correct, we really are talking about our two different needs / types of hunting. Sorry if I got carried away... Regards Eric, you know you're killing me. LOL

[tawnoper]

This is a cool discussion. I find these much more interesting than a lot of the "smoke a yote" posts.My first real center fire rifle was a 6mm Rem. Bought it at 14 years old with paper route money and help from my dad. I still own it. Ruger 77.I hunted exclusively with that rifle till I was in my early 20's...it was all I had. My one and only load consisted of IMR4350 and a 80gr Speer Hot-kore or the 85gr Sierra Spitzer. I cannot remember how many jackrabbits, coyotes, vermin and other stuff fell to that rifle. Quite a few deer as well. Never got too fancy trying different loads and stuff...load up, sight in and go hunting. I doubt any of the misses I had with that rifle was due to the fact of which bullet I was using. Anyway, obviously I like the 6mm.I can see both sides of the story in regard to Frank and Desert Fox. For long range stuff, BC rules. Period. The longer the distance the more it comes into play. The more wind you have to deal with, the more it comes into play. At longer distance the heavier, sleeker bullet will retain more velocity and eventually catch and pass a lighter bullet. The biggest advantage with BC to me is wind...but for hunting and shooting at common distances you want a flat shooting death ray...and velocity is the main way to go for that. The thing about the heavier high bc vld bullets is a lot of standard barrels will not stabilize them or shoot them worth a darn, but they will stabilize and shoot the lighter ones real well. Most guys who have a special tube installed on their rig do so so they can take advantage of high bc bullets are are not interested in shooting light bullets.While I hardly ever shoot at stuff much beyond 300yds without a bench/sandbags...just for the sake of conversation: 350yds (a pretty good field distance)While I like the lighter 58gr vmax for the 6mm I prefer something with a little more smack and better bc downrange. The 75gr is about perfect IMO. With the 58 loaded about 3900fps and the 75 at about 3400 they are within about an inch of each other out to 350yds (58 is slightly flatter) but the 75 has caught up to it in retained velocity. And the 75 has about a 2.5" less drift in a 10mph wind and hits with about 200 more pounds of energy. I like the 75 better.

[Desert Fox]

I was never really sold to the concept when Nosler first came out with the 55 grain bullet for the 243/6MM. I figured, at over 4,000 fps of velocity, in a fast 10 twist barrel, the rotational torque imparted on the bullet at such a high RPM would render it so inaccurate and worst, probably would blow-up before it get to the target. We're talking about in the neighborhood of 300,000 RPM here. Obviously I was wrong since I haven't heard nor read any complaint. But I'll bet it's hard to make this bullet shoot accurately at full 4000 fps+ velocity. Can any of you share your thought and experienced with the 55 here. Thanks,DF

[ehd]

i have shot some sierra 55 grain blitz kings hovering around the 4000 mark. Very accurate, deadly on coyotes. I choose them for a highly frangible load around houses /livestock. If I shot in much wind ,or areas that had little to worry about I would shoot the 70s. I do shoot some 69 grain Berger bullets that are absolutely the best coyote bullet I have ever shot. Never exits and match grade accuracy.

[ehd]

here is the 69 versus a 75 grain accu-tip  IMG_0630.jpg   47.07K   5 downloads