17 replies to this topic

[rdsii64]

This is probably old news by now but the ATF has banned Barnes' banded solids. The rest of they monolithic bullets are still legal so far. I know folks around here don't like Barnes for what they did to us. The problem is if the ATF can do this to Barnes, they can do this to their competition too. Hornady's GMX or the Nolser E-tip may be next. There are other lesser known companies than produce monolithic match bullets that could suffer as well.This does not look good. The part that scares me the most is that the ATF was smart enough to go after one company at a time.

[Frank]

I most likely have this wrong, but didn't Obama put an anti gun person in charge of the ATF? If so, this certainly would be no surprise. However, pathetic!

[zippy1970]

Why would the ATF (BATFE ) be " banning " a specific bullet ? Just wondering , Andy

[ShooterJohn]

The ATF classified those particular bullets as armor piercing. You can read about it here:http://www.barnesbul...Solids-2012.pdf

[Bisley]

One word: KHARMA I think I will hold protests and rallies and help them out as much as they have helped us out over the years...........Okay, all done, now back to my regular schedule.

[Recon]

Uh... where I can read about what has people down on Barnes?

[ShooterJohn]

Unfortunately the state removed or edited the tapes of the Barnes official that testified before the DFG commissioners. I've tried finding it on several occasions and all previous links are now bad. You're just going to have to take the word of people who saw Barnes lie through their teeth how that could make ammo as cheaply as lead ammo and in sufficient quantity. No other ammo manufacturer would attend the hearing.

[Shoot-it]

Do those solid copper rounds really pierce Armour? What kind of steal do they test to determine if it is amour piercing.

[ShooterJohn]

I believe the armor they are talking about is personal armor like bullet proof vests.

[Tuolumne85]

Most jacketed rifle rounds could be deemed armor piercing by those standards. Most personal body armor is only designed to keep pistol rounds from penetrating sounds like a very slippery slope to me.

[rdsii64]

One word: KHARMA I think I will hold protests and rallies and help them out as much as they have helped us out over the years...........Okay, all done, now back to my regular schedule.

I know we hate barnes for what they did, but look at the bigger picture. If we let the ATF get away with doing this to Barnes, then They will do this to Hornady, Nosler, and any other bullet maker they choose one company at a time. When we can't buy bullets then what will we do? the object here isn't to stand up for barnes per se but to put the ATF in check. The said that the banded solid would pierce armor. You do realize that a Hornady super shock tip will go through the same stuff with relative ease. they are not talking about a r550 plate steal, they are talking about the stuff that was only meant to stop pistol rounds. before long the nosler accubond then trophy bonded bear claw. then they will ban archery equipment because an arrow fired from a compound bow will go through a police issue balletic vest if the officer isn't wearing a trauma plate. In order to fight the bigger fight, I am willing to put Barnes' transgressions on the back burner for the time being. We can go back to cussing them when our gun rights are safe.

[Bisley]

While your heart is in the right place, and I that is a good thing, I am much more aware of a lot of things than you understand. Forget bullets, a pocket knife will go right through a standard "bullet proof" vest! I know many cops who rather be shot than stabbed, for several reasons. But here are a few things to consider also. First off, B....S bullets are made of either solid copper, or solid copper with a steel powder core. Your other manufacturers use a copper alloy called gilded metal. It's like comparing lead and tin, both metals, but not the same by no means. So even if they ban actual "copper" bullets, the alloys should not be in the same category. So for right now, nothing makes me feel more warm and fuzzy inside than to know that B....S bullets is being ramrodded with the same kind of reports that it promoted itself to turn our hunting world upside down. Which is why I always refer to them as "B....S" bullets. Call it poetic justice, irony, or Kharma Now don't get me wrong, I will be one of the first to support any of the other bullet manufacturers should they ever have a similar problem, but for right now it will still require a 100 ton Hydro Crane, 12 grown men, and three small children to get me to lift a single finger for B.....S bullets, especially being how they are the only one on the list.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

Bisley is right. If Barnes was able to pressure the F&G to remove the false testimony, "which is most likely what happened" then they should at least have the Huevos to stand up and admit that they were wrong. They know how the Ca. Sportmen feel that had this non-lead crap jammed down their throats and much was due to the lies they told. I wont buy any Barnes bullets now, Even if Hornady's and Noslers arent as good. Maybe they are better? Luckily I rarely have to use non lead. Thanks Barnes for the mess we are in. lol

[ShooterJohn]

The problem is that the Freedom Group, Inc. who is the parent company of Remington Arms bought Barnes out in January of 2010.

[Divernhunter]

So that should mean that if you will not purchase a Barnes product then you should also boycott Rem products(including their model 700 rifles) and any other product under the same parent company. That is OK. Just another reason to buy a Tikka or Savage!!! I still blame Barnes for part of the mess about non-lead bullets. However it was also the lack of turn out by sportsmen and other manufactures that allowed the tree huggers to push it thru even with Barnes help. I wonder just how many of those who complain actually got off their duff and did something to stop it besides lip service after the fact?? I do remember people saying it would not happen and doing nothing. I did work against it and any of you who did then you have a reason to gripe. For those that did nothing I say thanks for nothing and you should just be quiet. If you did nothing you are part of the problem. Pure and simple. Please understand I am not aiming these comments at anyone on this board or group of people just the shooting community in general. Well except for the Rem thing

[Bisley]

The problem is that the Freedom Group, Inc. who is the parent company of Remington Arms bought Barnes out in January of 2010.

Very true and understood, BUT, I did not tell them to invest their money by buying a company that single hanededly screwed every sportsman in this state!!! Who ever is in charge of researching their investments should be looking for a job. When you purchase a company you assume all their claims, liabilities, and reputation. And B....S bullets has an unforgivable reputation in my eyes, no matter who owns it. I am sorry for the investors, but not sorry enough to quit making my statement felt about ANY company that pulls a stunt like this, no matter who owns it, now or then. I do not "hate" Remington, they had nothing to do with original catastrophe, I do however hate their new B....S bullet division and what their reputation has stood for. They should have changed the name at the very least, but they didn't, so I guess it did not bother them what the previous company did. But it still bothers me, always will. Remington made a bad business deal (as far as I am concerned). They don't need to apologize to anyone for that, but in the same token, I shouldn't have to apologize to them for not supporting the company with "that name" did and for not buying bullets with "that name" on them.

[ShooterJohn]

I agree Bob. Remington made a poor choice in back stabbing us by not appearing before the commission and then buying Barnes.

[Bisley]

You sure would have thought that at the very, very least someone would have been smart enough to change the name though, huh??? They could have very easily sold them under their own name, since they already have a huge following, and let the bad reputation die with the other company. But what do we know, we don't have a degree in marketing