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Problems with .17 hmr


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#1 YoteDown!

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:30 AM

Well here's the deal. I have a Henry .17 hmr lever action rifle. I put a new scope on it and went to site it in. First five shots went down rage perfect, an i had it on target ( just need to fine tune the scope now) But my next 5 shots where all over the place. Not even close to the target. 1st shot went far left. 2nd shot was far right ( close to 5 feet right of the target) 3rd shot was dead on. 4th went left of target. and the 5th and final shot fell close to 3 feet short of the target. All of my shots where taken from a bench with a gun rest. I was aimed at the same spot on the target everytime. After running a few tests i have decided that the scope is not the problem nor is the ammo. ( i took the scope and ammo and used them on a friends .17) After i tested the scope and ammo on a different gun. I went an set my Henry back up and started shooting it some more. The next 10 rounds through the gun where still all over the place. I used 4 different brands of ammo for theses 10 shots. 2 rounds of each brand. Each brand shot all over the place. The gun is clean and in perfect shape. The gun was not hot when the rounds where shot. I have owned this gun for close to 4 years, and have shot close to 6k rounds through it. Could the gun just be worn out? I really like shooting this rifle , as it sits in my truck everyday for the past 4 years. What are your guys thoughts on this? any help or suggestions will help. im willing to try just about anything.Thank you all in advance.

#2 A17Shooter

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:55 AM

Yotedown!Did you check for copper fouling? 6,000 rds might do it even on a Hummer.Put the old scope, bases, rings, etc back on the Henry and try it. Check all screws and such for proper length. Make sure the new scope objective bell isn't touching the barrel.These are just the places I would start.Good Luck,

#3 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:40 PM

Im with Gary on this one. If you are certain it isnt the scope or mounts then taht removes 2 of the variables. If all of the ammo reacts the same way then there is another variable that you can dismiss. Id get some copper remover insert a foam earplug into the end of the barrel fill up the barrel and let it soak. Keep doing that until no blue comes out of the barrel. Another thing, you say the rifle resides in your truck, so Id inspect the crown of the barrel for any new nicks or dings that a truck ride may have induced from bumps ? Good luck, and keep us all posted.

#4 YoteDown!

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:44 PM

I'm 100% sure that the scope is not the issue here. I was also thinking copper fouling. So I got some remover today. I'll get it all cleaned up this week an try it out next weekend. Thank you for the quick replys.

#5 Braz

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:38 PM

Sure sounds like a scope issue to me. Pull it off and remount it using some loctite.

#6 Frank

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:00 PM

It's either the scope or barrel, going by what you're saying. How well has the barrel been maintained / cleaned over the years? 6k rounds in 4 years is a LOT. Many folks do a lousy job of keeping 22's & 17hmrs clean, and that is a GROSS understatement... ESPECIALLY when just left in a pickup truck. I know a fair number of dairymen. lol Anyway, if you're one of those not so good of a gun cleaner, then not only is there copper & powder build up, but likely Rust too. I would not be at all surprised if the barrel is trashed... but I hope not!

#7 Braz

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:25 PM

The good news is if the barrel is tashed, Henry will take care of it.

#8 ShooterJohn

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:29 PM

It sure sounds like a scope problem. Put a different scope on it. Fouling wouldn't go from dead on to that wild in five shots. What scope do you have on the Henry? What about parallax?

#9 Shoot-it

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:40 PM

I do notice after 500 rounds my accuracy suffers so i run a few patches threw it and it's good to go.I just ended up spraying my whole rifle black since it was beginning to get rusty being in my work truck.

#10 Bisley

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:27 PM

It sounds almost too simple, but take off the scope and shoot irons and see how it does. That's the easiest (and only) sure fire way to know if it is anything to do with optics, ie rings, scope, bases etc... You don't have to shoot it as far as with the scope, but at 25-50 yards you should have a real good idea of how the gun itself is shooting :roflmao3[1]:

#11 ehd

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:18 AM

is the forearm pressure changing. I did some fooling around with my 22mag and 5 pounds of forearm equates to 4" in elevation! Is the barrel band loose?

#12 YoteDown!

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:45 PM

The reason i say its not the scope is the simple fact that i have used it on another .17 and it worked fine. the scope does not hit my gun, the rings are tight ( with lock tight). I have done several tests to make sure the scope is not the prob. I bought the gun used so i have no clue how many rounds where shot from it before it became mine. I run a bore snake through my gun after everytime i shoot it. and i do a cleaning every 500 rounds or so. I shot the gun today with no scope on it and it still shoots all over the place. the berrel band and berrel it self and tight. This has to be a prob with the inside of the berrel. My guess is copper fouling. like i said above ill be cleaning it next week and well go from there.Thank you everyone for the help.

#13 ShooterJohn

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:21 PM

Just curious what brand, model and power of scope it is?

#14 YoteDown!

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:27 PM

It's a barska hot magnum .17 hmr. 3x12. It's not the best scope but I got it cheep at a gun show. So I said why not its worth a shot. An just a little review for anyone that may be interested in this product. It has turned out to be a pretty decent scope. I have around 300 rounds through it an have only had to adjust it once. Witch I think is pretty good for a scope that is used daily and rides in a truck daily. It also has the turrets on it for adjusting the scope for different yardage. It has adjustments out to 300 yards. Just turn to the yardage an it should be point and shoot from there. All in all I would say if you can get a good price go for it. I would never pay the list price for it. I feal there are higher quality scope in the same price rang. $80-$120

#15 204destroyer

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:36 PM

I have a couple of 17's and I'm going the other way on this one. I think it might be the barrel, I've shot the barrel out of 2 with less than 6000 rounds. Thats alot of fire down the barrel. If all else fails take it to someone with a barrel scope and have them look at the riflings. Good Luck.

#16 Bisley

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:36 PM

I run a bore snake through my gun after everytime i shoot it. and i do a cleaning every 500 rounds or so. I shot the gun today with no scope on it and it still shoots all over the place. the berrel band and berrel it self and tight.

Two things really stand out with these statements. First, now you know for sure it is the gun. And secondly, while running a bore snake and cleaning it often is a commendable thing, it also does zero to help copper fouling. Just so you don't feel too bad, I will fess up to being guilty of lack of cleaning, but also was reminded last year of of a problem I had forgotten about also, you guessed it, fouling. I had two rifles last year start to "open up" for no reason until I happened to catch a glimpse of green (tarnished copper) in the end of the barrel.Since a good copper cleaning doesn't really need to be done until accuracy falls off, it is easy to forget about the fouling as normal cleaning is plenty until this happens. Now that you know it is the gun for sure, and that a copper removal session has not been done, I would have to say the others are dead on about fouling. Just make sure that if you use a brush along with patches that the brush should be bronze or synthetic. Copper brushes and copper solvents do not mix well together :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

#17 ShooterJohn

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:31 AM

I put a new scope on it and went to site it in. First five shots went down rage perfect, an i had it on target ( just need to fine tune the scope now) But my next 5 shots where all over the place. Not even close to the target.

This statement alone leads me to believe it's a scope problem. I'd try a higher end scope and give the rifle another try. For the rifle to shot that badly in the next five shots it would have to had crown damage if it wasn't the scope. I think the rifle got banged around and that would go back to the scope.I had similar scope called a Sweet 17 for about a box of shells and at first thought it was a great scope. Then suddenly I couldn't even hit target and put a Nikon on and it was miraculously fixed. That Sweet 17 is one of those every few of them work. But they make good tomato stakes in the garden.

#18 YoteDown!

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:21 PM

The scope works perfect. I put it on a savage .17 and put 50 rounds down range with out a problem. I have the berrel soaking in some copper remover rite now. Ill find out later today after i do a full cleaning on it. Im going to clean it inside and out everything will be cleaned and oiled. Hope this does the trick. This is my trusty ranch gun. and a must have in my everyday life. Good news is. Ill be ordering a new .17 soon. I feal that my Henry has a ton of rounds through it and could use a rest. Illl be buying a savage model 93 r17. Its the tactical/range version. Im looking at a bushnell trophy xlt 6-18x50mm scope for it. This rifle will be taking alot of the load off my lever action. the Henry will still be a ranch gun but will be used alot less when its to to varmint hunt and range days.

#19 Shoot-it

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:14 PM

have you tried that sweets 7.62 it will get the copper out make sure not to breath it like i did lol.sounds like the barrel is worn out.

#20 ShooterJohn

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:32 PM

I'm not understanding something here I guess. But barrel fouling doesn't happen in five round. If the barrel is worn out it would have been spraying bullets over a period of time. But not having the rifle to look at and test, who knows. Good luck with it.Shoot-it, what do you mean you don't like the smell of Sweets? It's not a good smelling as Hoppes but it is bad.:smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

#21 ehd

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:02 PM

Im with john that i never heard of one turning sour so quickly? what do the empty cases look like?

#22 Fjold

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:58 PM

6K rounds won't wear out a rimfire barrel.

#23 donkey12

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 07:28 PM

My bet is its the scope.

#24 YoteDown!

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 08:12 PM

It struck me as odd when it started doing it aswell .I would have never guessed it to happen that fast. I ended up having some down time today so i was able to finish the cleaning on it. You wouldn't be leave how much junk came out of the berrel when i used the copper remover. I worked on the gun for close to 2 hours and got it perfectly clean. Hope that tomorrow ill have time to get a few rounds down range to see if it did the trick. and as far as the scope. my buddy put another 80 rounds through his gun with my scope on it. He said it worked perfect. never once had a bad shot. I'm going to have to say that it is not the scope, the berrel had to be the problem.

#25 Bisley

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:12 PM

When the 700 BDL 06 (mentioned above) went askew, it was shooting it's normal just over an inch groups with 10 rounds as fast as you can let em fly like it has been for years. Put it away, took it out a month or two later and had 3-4" patterns. Put it on three different shoulders with the same results. Pops is the shooter of the family, and when he shoots that bad something is definitely wrong. So thinking it was the (cheap) scope, I started to take it off. That was when I noticed the greenish color near the muzzle while it was on the cleaning stand. Ran some copper cleaner through her (wow was it fouled) and she shot like new with same scope. My go-to Howa did the same thing now that I think about it. Anyway, I don't know if it was the sitting around for a month and letting the copper tarnish that made it get worse so fast or if it would have done the same thing had I continued to shoot it that last day before it went south. Unfortunately I will never know, but I can tell you that it went from 10 quick rounds in an inch to 3-4" like the flip of a light switch! And it still sports the same (cheap) scope it had originally. And I won't even tell you how many blueish green patches I went through (along with a bronze brush). I have since decided I will copper cleanse once a year (all rifles) if I shoot it a bunch instead of waiting.All that being said, I don't know for sure if that is the problem here, but I did have a centerfire medium bore turn on me that fast.I also noticed he is in Fresno ( :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow: lead-free zone) and if he is using lead-free, they are much softer than the gilded metal used in leaded bullets. That would seem to help it foul out quicker too you would think? Just a thought.

#26 ShooterJohn

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:48 PM

In ten total round for it to go that bad? Hey whatever at this point.

#27 KNOCKED UP

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:57 AM

Ok Yotedown, You have had plenty of time.So What was the problem with your 17 HMR?Tom

#28 YoteDown!

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 08:24 AM

Have not had a chance to shoot it yet. I'll be heading out to my ranch latter today. So I'll go put a few rounds down range and see how it goes.

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:03 AM

KOOL!!Tom

#30 YoteDown!

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:14 PM

Well I mounted up my scope an went over to my range. I put a box of ammo down range. Got my scope all dialed in. The gun shot perfect. Copper fouling and lack of good cleaning was the problem. I always run a brush and patches through. But never have done a good deep clean like this. Lesson learned. I'll always give my guns a good full cleaning every year depending on use. I also talked to a gunsmith today about this problem. He first asked me about the scope and how I mounted it. I told him all the specs and how I mounted it. Also told him that I monted the scope on my. Buddies .17 and it worked perfect. He the. Asked me about cleaning. I kinda laughed an said that I use a bore snake after shooting and clean every so often. Brush and patches is what I used. First thin out of his mouth after that was copper fouling. So I asked if it could happen within 5 shots. He said yes. It can happen that fast. The gun hast to be in the range of fouling out. 5 shots warmed it up and made it gummy enough for it to happen. Thank you all for your help on this situation. I'm glade this is such a friendly form With good people.




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