30 replies to this topic

[ratassassin]

A couple weeks ago, I picked up a really clean 1984 Remington 700 .30-06 ADL. What a beauty. The walnut stock looks like a higher grade than normally seen on ADL's and has nice grain with a satin finish. It looks like this rifle may have been fired 5 or 10 times and then sat in a safe. It's not a collector's item by any means but will make a great hunting rifle. I get to pick it up on Saturday and I'll post some photos when I can.Any recommendations on a favorite -06 load that shoots accurately? I've got a Redding Competition Seating Die, FL sizing die, and some H4350 on the way. I also have IMR4350, H414, IMR4064, TAC, H335 and Varget, WLR primers and Federal brass already on hand. I want to load bullets in the 125 - 168 grain range.Thanks, gents

[Bisley]

I'm sure it may not be the MOST accurate, by I have yet to see an 06 around that didn't shoot a 150gr bullet behind 48grs of 4895 (either IMR or Hodgdon) pretty darn well. It may not be a match load, but works exceptionally well as a general hunting load.

[clampdaddy]

My model 70 likes 55.8 grains of IMR-4350 under Hornady 165 grain interbonds, or 56.5 grains of the same powder under a 150 grain Swift scirrocco.

[Frank]

WOW, Mike, I didn't know one could even find a 30/06 any more. LOL (just kidding of course)Many moons ago, I actually had that exact same rifle and caliber but with the lesser quaility wooden stock. The (custom) grade stock (is what I "think" they used to call it) was indeed a gorgeous piece of wood. Unfortunately I can't even remember when I had my last 30/06, much less the loads I worked up. However, I actually still have a (1980) target from my Rem, ADL 30/06 that put 4 shots into 1 hole measuring 1/4" at 200 yards. The 5th shot opened it up to 3/4". The load was a 165 gr Sierra H.P. bullet with 47 grs of 4895 powder. I did not write down whether or not it was IMR or H, but am very sure it was IMR, as that is what I was using a lot of back then.I would imagine such powders as IMR & H4350, IMR 4064, IMR 4895, RL19 & RL15 would be top performers in various bullet weights. Then again, like the 223, the ole '06 will likely shoot about anything you put in it. While the mid to heavier weight bullets might hold a slight edge in the accuracy dept, I believe I would use a 150(lead) or 130 +/- gr (barnes?) bullet if I owned an '06 today... being a speed junkie & all. As long as it was not a "varmint" constructed bullet. I would "probably" start out with the 150gr bullet, hoping to end up with approx 61-62grs of RL19. A lighter 130 gr or so bullet, then perhaps RL15 at around 56-57 gr (+/-), if possible? Anyway, Congrats on your very fine purchase Frank p.s. it does my heart good that it was a Rem... as you know. LOL

[4RHUNTS]

As Bisley said H4895 works very well in my '06. Most accurate bullet is the 168 gr. Barnes TSX.

[Bisley]

p.s. it does my heart good that it was a Rem... as you know. LOL

I must have missed that one. Since when did you jump on the Remington bandwagon?...................... I have to admit it Frank, I have never really been loyal to just one brand, but have recently "acquired" my dad's old 700 (I think BDL, but may be ADL- nice wood stock, open sights, d&ted also) in 06 about a year ago. And I have to say, this thing seems to shoot most anything very well. It also has a tendency to put varying bullet weights very close to same POI. The real kicker though, is that my buddy picked up a new Remmy 700 (forget which one) in .22-250 about the same time. Ten shots to dial her in, next five touching at 100 yards, with no barrel cooling and no "barrel-break-in" . You MAY just be on to something here, but I'll never admit it

[Frank]

LOL... Too funny, Bisley! And glad to see you coming over to the dark side (even though in the closet. lol). And NICE job getting your dad's Rem. Man, that will ALWAYS be very special & mean a lot. And you're right, that IS one very fine rifle IMO. Your buddy also did great as you are seeing & glad to hear that. I've actually reduced the # of predator rifles down to 2 lately because how awesome both are & not needing anything else. A 223 & 22-250, both Remingtons. They are such fine rifles and scary accurate. I should have to gut myself if I miss with either one. Well, except running shots that is. lol BTW, 2 of my primary hunting partners also owns the same Remingtons as I do, in same calibers. I'm obviously a bad influence. Anyway, I no longer enjoy going to the range with BADCOYOTE, as he is now out shooting me & I can't handle it. I mean 4 shots in one, 1/8" hole at 100 yards. The 5th shot pushed it to 3/8". He shot approx 9, 5 shot groups, with the WORST at 5/8". I told him he should post some of those targets on here again, but he don't listen to me either... anymore. LOL Anyway, even though Remmys are my favorite, I have owned/own many different brands of firearms & love them all. I know, hard to believe, but true. lolOOPS, sorry Mike, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Hmmm, but does help verify how good you did. I hope! lolFrank

[ratassassin]

Ha! Hijack away, Frank. It's all related. I've got 3 Remington 700's now (.308, .204 Ruger and now the .30-06). They are all nice rifles. Geez, those groups you're talking about are scary. Don't think I'll be able to keep up with that. But I'll give 'er a go anyhow. Thanks everybody for the load suggestions. I'm going to work up a 130 grain load (fast and also offers lower recoil) first and the 150 grainers are also something I'm going to focus on. Just got done full length sizing 70 pieces of brass and they're back in the tumbler getting rid of the lube. Congrats on getting your dad's rifle, Bis. Wish my dad had handed me down something like that. If it's got a hinged floorplate, it's likely a BDL. If it's got a solid stock underneath with no floorplate or detachable box magazine, it's an ADL. Mike

[Single Six]

I haven't started reloading yet, so I don't know squat, but I bought some 125 grain loaded Rems for my Howa and really liked them. I haven't tried for accuracy yet, but I like shooting them since they are pretty fast and light recoiling. And man, if you hit a jack with one, you might not find it. When I was researching light, fast 06 loads and Howas a while back, I came across 2 different guys that said they had 100-110 grain loads that would shoot very accurately. Also, a good friend of mine, older guy, retired gunshop owner/smith said he used to have a 06 that shot a 110 grain the best....I think it's a very cool idea, I'm plannign to get around to it. Small, light, fast, flat, and since it's blunt like a .45 bullet, large meplat, I'm sure it hits and imparts it's force very well, esp with the Hornady polytip. It sure did on the 2 jacks I got with the 125s.

[ratassassin]

Neat. I wonder if those 125 grainers you were using were Speer TNT bullets. I've shot those, and the 110 grain Sierra Varminters, in my .308 with handloads and got 6/10ths of an inch 5 shot groups. So they're definitely capable of great accuracy. The 110 grainers don't hold it together as well at long range, but they sure shoot great out to 200 yards. I'll have to try those 125 grain Speer TNT's in my -06.

[Bisley]

Congrats on getting your dad's rifle, Bis. Wish my dad had handed me down something like that. If it's got a hinged floorplate, it's likely a BDL. If it's got a solid stock underneath with no floorplate or detachable box magazine, it's an ADL. Mike

Thanks, it's an oldie for sure. I can remember my him buying it at the old Gemco (for those that remember Gemco, yes, we're old) and walking out with it too. No 10 day wait back then. I am very lucky to have him for a dad. His dad worked for LEO, and had an old Colt Combat Commander .45 and a .357 Python that were sold and not handed down. Think there's some hurt feelings there?! I am very grateful.I do remember messing around with 110gr bullets a few years back for that rifle. The V-maxes shot pretty well, but DO NOT use round nose 100gr .30 carbine bullets. One shot would try and tunnel it's way to the target, the next would try to put itself in orbit! Safest place to be was in the crosshairs . They are surely not meant for those speeds. But, as I said, the V-maxes did pretty well. I am almost positive we were using Varget for those. That's his favorite go to powder since the .223, 30-30, 06, and 45-70 can all use it. We also use the 110's in the 30-30. Now that's fun! Good luck, be sure and post how it turns out.P.S. If you can get your hands on them (I still have a little over a hundred), the old, original Winchester SilverTips are pure gold. Instant death to pigs and deer, and I won't even describe what they do to rabbits

[D-Man]

I use a nice 165 or 168 grain bullet backed by H414 or H4831SC and it works great. Get the current load data off the Hodgdon website.Darren

[Caneman]

If you can tell me how long the barrel is (inside length using a closed bolt) and the type of bullet you are using I can run it through Quick Load and tell you what it suggests.

[ratassassin]

Thanks, gents. Caneman, I appreciate the offer. I'll have to measure the barrel length using my Dewey cleaning rod and a closed bolt this weekend and let you know. Last weekend, I tested the first handloads with Barnes tipped TSX 130 grain. (I need a lead free load for the Condor zone.) The best results so far were with the following load:Bullet: Barnes TTSX 130 grainPowder: Varget 53.0 grainsPrimer: Winchester Large Rifle (WLR)COAL: 3.218"Brass: Federal full length sized, not yet fire-formedChron results: Average MV 3025 fps, ES 87.38, SD 32.66. Group (100 yards): 5 shots in .897", 4 of which were in .631" and three holes were in a tight cloverleaf. Group sizes opened up with more speed but I have more testing to do because I ran out of time. Still, this is at least a usable load that might be improved by varying seating depth and jump to the lands. My initial load tests were from 53.0 to 53.5 grains, which is on the slower side of Barnes' published load data. I still have to test the 53.7 and 54.0 gr loads. That won't make speed demons like Frank happy, but I'm looking for a good, flat shooting lower recoil load. And a .30 caliber TTSX 130 grainer leaving the muzzle at over 3,000 fps should drop a pig just fine. The ADL shot great. Trigger breaks clean but is a bit heavy, probably around 4 lbs. Good enough for a hunting trigger, although I may eventually install a Timney. Before I started my load tests, I cleaned the barrel thoroughly with Butch's Bore Shine and Rem Oil, then fouled the barrel with 10 shots of Federal Powershok 150 grain (2910 fps) which shot within 1" at 100 yards. Was able to easily hit the 300 yard steel pig silhouettes. (Didn't really need 10 shots to foul it but I was having too much fun.) Recoil wasn't bad at all with the 150 grainers but that hard plastic butt plate on the 1980's ADL's is unforgiving if you don't have the butt squared with your shoulder and are shooting without a jacket. Bit me once with a nice pinch in the shoulder because I had it at too much of an angle. I ordered a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad for it. The factory length of pull is a bit short anyhow so adding a 1" Pachmayr pad should be perfect. Anyhow, I'm happy with how the 150 gr Federal Powershok shot for cheap, off the shelf Walmart lead ammo and I've at least got a decent lead free hunting load if I get a chance to go after a hog this Fall.

[Frank]

And a .30 caliber TTSX 130 grainer leaving the muzzle at over 3,000 fps should drop a pig just fine. That won't make speed demons like Frank happy, but I'm looking for a good, flat shooting lower recoil load.

LOL... Too funny, Mike, and Right on... on all of it.I really do like that TTSX, 130gr for your '06 & am sure would be my bullet of choice if I had an '06 today. Plus the GREAT advantage of being able to hunt with it anywhere... buzzard zone or not, as you stated. That's also why I did that for my oldest son's deer rifle, only with the 110gr TTSX out of his 270wsm.Your getting good accuracy and good velocity along with it so you really wouldn't need to test any further loads (bite my tongue). But that wouldn't be as much fun. LOL If you chose to, the velocity could be pushed considerably higher, but like you say, so would the recoil. But might be worth testing just to compare if nothing else, on how much recoil (& velocity) difference there is. Maybe? Since you are near the light end of that load anyway in other words. 'OH... almost forgot, and am sure you already know this, but often times a low end, accurate load starts going to pot when increasing the velocity, as you experienced. It's not until you get past that "mid" range charge & near or at or above so called (book) max charge, that accuracy returns. Not always of course, but lots of times. Anyway, Frank

[Single Six]

I have heard the same thing about velocity and accuracy. I wonder if it's an RPM thing. Notice how if you spin something with a variable speed (like our driveline balancer) as you go through the RPM range, the vibration increases and decreases at different RPMs? Slower or faster bullet = more and less RPM, same as twist differences.

[Frank]

Great analogy, Six

[Jeff213]

My goto 06 load for accuracy out of my weatherby vanguard is a 125gr sierra pro hunter soft point over 61 grains of w760 powder. This load pushes the bullet at around 3180 fps and groups under an inch and a half at 200 yards off a rest.

[ratassassin]

Nice, Jeff. May have to give that a try. I like the 125 grain .308 Speer TNT bullets so I'll bet those 125 grain Sierra pro hunters shoot great, too. Over the last few weeks, I've been having some trouble reproducing accuracy with my 130 grain TTSX load using 53.0 gr Varget. Sometimes it will give me sub-MOA, other times 1.25 to 1.50 MOA. This rifle is very sensitive to barrel heat. Going to switch to Ramshot TAC which burns a bit faster (about like H4895) and give that a try. I had great results with this same bullet but in my .308 using TAC.

[Jeff213]

With my weatherby vanguard, using the 125gr sierra load mentioned previously, I can shoot a 5 shot group back to back about 20-30 seconds between shots and it will group sub moa. I usually give it longer to cool down between shots though and after shooting a group I will put it down to rest 10 mins and cool while I shoot another rifle.

[ratassassin]

Jeff, is your barrel free floated? Mine isn't, but I've read that M700's barrels prefer some contact with the stock so I haven't sanded out the barrel channel.Mounted a new Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 mil-dot and Burris rings on my rifle, along with a Pachmayr Decelerator pad. Unfortunately, I can't shoot this weekend because I'm Mr. Mom with kid duty.

[Frank]

I've read that M700's barrels prefer some contact with the stock

Boy, Mike, I sure don't know about that one. I mean, sure, I've seen lots of Rem's shoot Great without free floating, However...The problem with a wood stocked deer rifle is, that hunting in different altitudes, temps & moisture conditions can actually cause a (sometimes severe) shift in the point of impact. A free floated barrel & glass or pillar bedded action will greatly reduce or even prevent that from happening. At least for the most part. In other words, you will normally gain more CONSISTENCY & just as good, if not better accuracy with a free floating barrel & bedded action. Normally!Just my :two-cents:Frank

[ratassassin]

Yeah, that's what I've always thought too, Frank, and it is the conventional wisdom. But I noticed on one of my other Rem 700's (the .204 Ruger VLSS) that Remington had intentionally put a contact point down at the end of the laminate forearm to meet up with the barrel just in front of the front swivel stud. On that rifle, the barrel free floats all the way up to the front of the stock where there is the contact point. I thought about sanding it out but then hesitated thinking it looked too intentional. I've asked a few gunsmiths I know and they say Remington intentionally creates a contact point there for a reason, presumably because it makes the 700's shoot better. I Googled it and sure enough came across a few articles and forum posts where people said the same thing, although one person said Remington did it so the barrels look evenly spaced in the stock for a nicer sales presentation and it offered no performance benefit. Some posters reported that they sanded out the barrel channel to free float their ADL's barrel and it created a decrease in accuracy, although an increase in consistency for the reasons you point out. One gunsmith I spoke with who makes high end custom competition rifles said that free floating a barrel is generally better for a rifle that will be shot repeatedly, in relatively quick succession heating the barrel. For rifles like sporters that would be shot once or twice at game, he said it was better to leave Remington's stock contact point intact. This may explain why I can get tight 3 shot groups but with barrel heat, it gets a bit wild. That said, my ADL's stock makes contact irregularly along the left side of the barrel and doesn't make contact along the right side. So I doubt that was by design; more like by sloppiness. Remington must have started making the intentional contact point down at the end of the barrel channel after 1984 when my rifle was made. So I'm sorely tempted to sand it out, but I'm going to work up handloads first and see how consistent and accurate I can get before sanding the barrel channel. I'm curious if your 700 sporters have a contact point up front or whether they are completely free floated. I honestly don't know what to conclude about all this. It all seems to be based on so much lore and not much science. If I remember correctly, Varmint Al posted some very interesting information on his site about barrel flex. I'm going to go back and read it. Al, if you read this post, I'd sure love your input.

[Frank]

Some posters reported that they sanded out the barrel channel to free float their ADL's barrel and it created a decrease in accuracy

Yes, that can, and certainly does happen.I have owned a LOT of Rem 700's over 40+(?) years and cannot recall any of them having a pressure point deliberately built in. Not that one or more didn't have it, just never noticed or recall seeing it. Perhaps a phone call to Remington may help? Perhaps?? As I mentioned above, back in the '70's & early '80's I had the exact same (outstanding) ADL as yours, with the barrel free floated & action bedded (as I do on 90+%) of my bolt action rifles. It drove tacks. If I find that target I mentioned above I might post it here. Since your stock is making irregular contact along the sides of your barrel, that is not a good thing for sure. It is definitely a tough decision for you, but I know what I would do with it. Frankp.s... I would also find another gunsmith. The good 3 shots and the rest wild is saying something is wrong. The load, barrel to stock fit, shooter(which I doubt), trigger or a combination of things. Good Luck

[Frank]

Here's a lone target I still had, shot in 1980 from my 30/06 ADL at 200 yards. 4 shots in one, 1/4" hole with 5th flyer opening up the group to 3/4"  1.jpg   22.48K   4 downloads

[ratassassin]

Good advice, Frank. And I appreciate it. That's one heck of a target. Outstanding. I'll probably end up sanding out the barrel channel. There are a few other suspects regarding inaccuracy for this rifle. First is the barrel contact we've talked about. But I also discovered a few weeks ago that my rifle had the dreaded ISS "J-Lock" complete with the oversized firing pin spring that bunches up and makes contact with the interior of the bold carrier, which I discovered after disassembling the bolt. Bought an OEM Remington non-ISS firing pin assembly for $54 from Brownells. It's really nice and comes with a fluted firing pin and a spring that actually fits without bunching up. Installed it in 5 minutes and it works great. Just haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. Hoping the improved consistency in lock time will tighten up my groups. The other issue is the trigger pull weight is still about 4 or 5 lbs, which doesn't help my accuracy. It breaks clean but has a heavy pull. Fine for hunting, though. Just trouble shooting it one thing at a time ... Fun, actually. It'll get there.

[Jeff213]

My barrel is epoxy bedded as it came from the factory. it is free floated about 1/2 the way back to the reciever then it is bedded.

[ratassassin]

Thanks, Jeff. Frank, what bedding compound did you use on your 700's, Brownell's Acraglas? Or did you install pillars?

[Frank]

Hey Mike, I just got back from a week in Colorado, & why my (long) delay..Anyway, no pillars installed. Glass bedding only...While I do not do the bedding myself, the place I have it done at uses Brownells AcraGEL. They tell me the Acraglas is too runny along with the Gel setting up better. They add their own color dye to match the color of the stock.Hope this helps and again, sorry for my delayFrank

[ratassassin]

Thanks, Frank. Good to know. I've worked with Acraglas before to repair a crack in a walnut stock and it is very runny. But the result was great and Acraglas is extremely tough stuff when it dries. Acragel looks like it's much more friendly to deal with for bedding. Who does your bedding? Is there a good shop you can recommend? Maybe I'll have someone do it rather than dink with it. Did you do any hunting in Colorado, maybe put a dent in the prairie dog population?