Jump to content


Photo

if you could design your own cartridge.....


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:26 PM

Ok, just for fun, if you could design your own cartridge what would it be? What case would you use, how would you alter its shape, and what caliber would it be? Are there any existing cartridges that you think were done wrong or could be improved upon? Let's hear what you would build if you had access to all the machinery needed to make it happen.I'll start out with one that I think Winchester really messed up on. The .25 wssm. They call it a magnum but it barely reaches 25-06 velocities. If I had my way I'd ditch the squatty little wssm case and make a real .257 caliber magnum out of it by using the larger wsm case. If you're gonna call it a magnum then make it a magnum!The second one I would love to do is take the .375 ruger case and neck that bad boy down to .277 caliber. I'm thinking, something that beats .270 Weatherby velocities without the high ammo cost. Ok let's hear what kind of wildcat kittens you have in mind.
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#2 Baja_Traveler

Baja_Traveler

    Shooter

  • Gold Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 665 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego

Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:09 PM

Are there any existing cartridges that you think were done wrong or could be improved upon?

I'd take the .45 GAP production dies and melt them down. My ideal cartridge is already in existence, so no need to re-invent the wheel. The 6.5 has taken every animal on the planet. I'd keep my 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher first, or my 6.5 x 55 second...

 If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally,… you might live in a country founded by geniuses but run by idiots.


#3 dangerranger

dangerranger

    Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 776 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Coarsegold, the exact center of CA
  • Interests:I am a shooter first and then a hunter. I shoot competitively, most recently in the American Single Shot Association. I have also shot Cowboy action, Silhoettes,etc.. I like to build guns as a hobby.

Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:19 PM

Im starting to gather parts for a 17center fire rifle. probably a 17AI Hornet. I know its been done but thats what makes me drool this week. DR

#4 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:52 PM

I'll start out with one that I think Winchester really messed up on. The .25 wssm. They call it a magnum but it barely reaches 25-06 velocities. If I had my way I'd ditch the squatty little wssm case and make a real .257 caliber magnum out of it by using the larger wsm case. If you're gonna call it a magnum then make it a magnum!The second one I would love to do is take the .375 ruger case and neck that bad boy down to .277 caliber. I'm thinking, something that beats .270 Weatherby velocities without the high ammo cost.

Yep, both excellent points & Great ideas for a wildcat. I am a HUGE .277 cal fan, but not sure I would even want to shoot that tiger. I get little pleasure out of shooting my oldest son's lightweight 270 wsm & my shoulder is still sore from shooting it yesterday. Can you imagin what a wuss I would be with a .277/375? LOL While I have toyed with the idea of a wildcat for many years, including a 20/250, I really am not a fan of wildcats. I just figure there are too many excellent commercial rounds available without all that extra time, $$ & energy needed for a wildcat, & that will likely give little to no (practical) advantage over it's commercial peer. They're just not worth it to me, in other words.However, everyone should have a project &/or hobby that brings them pleasure, and if a wildcat round does that for them, then that is exactly what that individual should be doing of course. Different strokes for different folks. It's all good as they say. lolIf I had to guess what dia bullet I would build a wilcat on, it might be a .20, 224, 243, 264 or .277. Not sure what cases I would use. The 270 wsm case is a great one IMO, & may work for a .243 dia? Good ThreadFrank

#5 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:53 PM

I'd take the .45 GAP production dies and melt them down.

:) You mind if I throw in the ruger compact magnum line and the .308 Marlin express while you have the smelter fired up? :)
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#6 Bisley

Bisley

    Big Kahuna

  • Gold Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,628 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West Covina, CA
  • Interests:The three W's, whiskey, women, weapons. No particular order.

Posted 14 June 2011 - 09:27 PM

I would make a .30 caliber, that could be loaded light enough for small game if desired, but yet heavy enough to take down anything in North America. I would also make it available in ANY gun store, most hardware stores, and even many retail stores. The recoil would be tolerable, the powder selection would be large, and the bullet selection even larger. It would be the standard by which all new calibers are judged, and would stand the test of time by lasting for a hundred years or more. I think I would call it............. the .30-06........ :) I have nothing against wildcats, but what's the use of reinventing a wheel that rolls perfectly fine already? Just seems that all that money spent on custom dies, barrels, reamers, etc. could be put to way more use towards hunting with. But, again, I'm just a simple man with a simple plan K.I.S.S.

#7 Divernhunter

Divernhunter

    Big Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,235 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denair, CA
  • Interests:Hunting, fun target shooting, reloading, collecting firearms. Also enjoy scuba diving and welding. Shoot 22RF to 50bmg.

Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:24 PM

The needs are all covered with far less than what we have now. However if I were to play with a wildcat I would take a 50Spotter/Tracer brass case and neck it to 6.5mm. That would be one heck of a mag and could really push 140-160gr bullets fast for long range hunting etc. Would be great with non-lead bullets where they work better the faster they are pushed.

#8 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:55 AM

I would make a .30 caliber, that could be loaded light enough for small game if desired, but yet heavy enough to take down anything in North America. I would also make it available in ANY gun store, most hardware stores, and even many retail stores. The recoil would be tolerable, the powder selection would be large, and the bullet selection even larger. It would be the standard by which all new calibers are judged, and would stand the test of time by lasting for a hundred years or more. I think I would call it............. the .30-06........ :) I have nothing against wildcats, but what's the use of reinventing a wheel that rolls perfectly fine already? Just seems that all that money spent on custom dies, barrels, reamers, etc. could be put to way more use towards hunting with. But, again, I'm just a simple man with a simple plan K.I.S.S.

Oh, the wildcat you need is a .300 Whelen. :) :)
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#9 Leonten

Leonten

    Squirrel Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 74 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aptos, CA

Posted 14 October 2011 - 10:33 AM

I actually did have a very nice wildcat cartridge many many moons ago. The rifle had an 18" Douglas Barrel, Mauser 98 action, full length Mannlischer stock and Timney trigger. It was chambered for the 25/284. However, I already had (and still have) a Ruger M77 RL Ultra Light chambered for the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. Both guns had identical performance, velocity, weight, accuracy etc. and were a pleasure to take to the field. Loaded, with scope, they tipped the scale at 7.5 lbs. A buddy of mine just had to have the 25/284 so I sold it to him for twice what I paid. That short 18" barrel just didn't do the cartridge justice. If I were going to have a rifle built, I'd start with a short action and use the 284 as the parent cartridge. The rifle would have a 22" barrel and since the action would be short I'd have the stock & fluted barrel as light as I could to end up with a nice mountain rifle. I'd blow out the shoulder of the case from 35 degrees to 40 degrees. Then neck down the cartridge to 6.5mm (.264). The 284 has the same power capacity as the 30/06, therefore I could duplicate any of the '06's offspring's performance in a shorter and lighter rifle. I'd choose the .264 mainly for the better Ballistic Coefficient in the different bullet weights. Today there are a number of great hunting bullet designs for the 6.5mm. I'll admit the 30 caliber has the greatest range of bullets, but the 6.5 has all the weights I'd need for my hunting purposes. This wildcat should exceed the performance of the 260 Remington by 100 to 150 fps. Anyway, that's what I'd build.....Your comments?

#10 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 23 October 2011 - 07:22 PM

So kinda like a 6.5-284 Ackley Improved? Sounds good to me.The .284 case would also be great for making a short action medium bore thumper. It could be necked up to .35 or .375 and it's larger diameter case would offer a shoulder that would headspace better than the .35 and .375 Whelen.
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#11 Fjold

Fjold

    Traveling hitman

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,796 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bakersfield, CA
  • Interests:Shooting, hunting and fishing.

Posted 24 October 2011 - 07:38 PM

Both the necked down WSM and Ruger cases would be seriously overbored and eat barrels like Wifezilla goes through cookies. The Remington SAUM necked down to 257 would be a good compromise.I would take the new 375 (or 416) Ruger and neck it up to .423. Why Ruger necked the 375 up to 416 where it competes with the 416 Remington and Rigby, I don't know. It's always going to be compared against them and lose. If Ruger would have gone to the .423 bore it's only comparison would have been to the 404 Jeffrey and the Jeffery requires a longer action than the 375 H&H.
Frank
One rifle, one planet. Holland's 375
Posted Image

#12 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 26 October 2011 - 03:37 PM

Both the necked down WSM and Ruger cases would be seriously overbored and eat barrels like Wifezilla goes through cookies. The Remington SAUM necked down to 257 would be a good compromise.

I like hot rods, can you tell? :signlol2iu: I hate the term "overboard". As far as I can tell that it just something that a guy who shoots a .250 savage can say to knock his buddies .257 Weatherby. Is the .250 more efficient, heck yeah, but the .257 is a superior big game hunting round no matter how "overbored" it is. A WSM case behind a .257 cal bullet shouldn't be any harder on a barrel than a .257 Weatherby. My .277x.375 Ruger creation may be a bit worse but a hunter should still get plenty of years out of a barrel.
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#13 Shoot-it

Shoot-it

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,244 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA

Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

I was thinking of a 223 necked down to a 17 but it has been done all ready.

#14 Racink6

Racink6

    Predator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 298 posts
  • Location:Bakersfield,CA

Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:56 PM

I would like to design a non lead 233 thats worth a darn. :two-cents:

#15 Thumper Dunker

Thumper Dunker

    STICK BENDER

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,748 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto Cal.
  • Interests:Hunting ,Fishing , Wife ,Son ,Cat,Dog , My koi , Trad Bows.

Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:26 AM

I want it all. :two-cents: Maybe a 20 06 or 20 08.
You can hop but you can't hide. Yahi Bowmen. Its not how far you can shoot but how close to the game you get when you shoot. Sights we don't need any sights. Why waist time reloading when I can be making arrows.

#16 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:19 PM

I would like to design a non lead 233 thats worth a darn. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

Something between .224 and .243 caliber? That would be interesting.
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#17 Kephers

Kephers

    Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manteca, Ca
  • Interests:Hunting and Shooting

Posted 05 November 2011 - 10:01 AM

My neighbor growing up had a 30/30-6mm wildcat. Thing was awesome.
OORAH! SEMPER FI!
Call Me Keith!
1 Round Varmint War!

#18 clampdaddy

clampdaddy

    Chief Feathercloud

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hilmar, Ca.
  • Interests:Shooting, Hunting, Reloading, Antique Tractors, Clampin', and Relaxing

Posted 06 November 2011 - 08:12 PM

I have a buddy that shoots one. His is built on a Savage 99 lever action.
My guns are mine, they aren't for sale, and I only give guns to people that I really like. So I guess the government is **** out of luck.

#19 Kephers

Kephers

    Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manteca, Ca
  • Interests:Hunting and Shooting

Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:41 AM

This one was a bolt action. 30/30 case necked down to a 6mm bullet.
OORAH! SEMPER FI!
Call Me Keith!
1 Round Varmint War!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users