31 replies to this topic

[Jay61cal]

Savage 10pc 20" heavey 1:10Well here are the first loads developed for this rifle and i'm not very happy with the results but am not gonna give up...i know that i'm capable of shooting .5 moa so maybe i just had a bad day or it could have been the crappy weather or the thick crosshairs on my nikon buckmaster 6x18 bdc reticle....this is a hunting rifle so i was hoping to get at least moa with the nosler e-tips..any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...seating depth???  IMG_0102.JPG   35.14K   15 downloads 54 degrees with 10 mph winds NE  IMG_0103.JPG   77K   12 downloads first leadfree loads and really hate a condor right now

[whatjeffhunts]

If its a hunting rifle just shoot at 12" paper plates if its for big game. Thats all you need. If its multipurpose and your gonna be shooting predators what you have looks pretty good to me. I like the Hornady GMX's btw for non lead.

[Jay61cal]

I'm obsessed with accuracy and wanna know that i can shoot a yote at 400+ yrds if i had to.....i thought the e-tip was a accurate leadfree bullet?

[OrneryOlMofo357]

I'm thinking Lead free will take a bit more work to get to the level that you want You may need to try a few more bullets and loads to achieve your desired results.. Its tough to beat Lead for accuracy. Good luck.

[Jay61cal]

And can u get the gmx to shoot tighter in .308...i'm willing to switch brands if thats rhe case

[whatjeffhunts]

The pattern you have isnt bad for the etip, just that flyer on the upper left. Maybe move to the 180 grain etip, might be a little more stable having a heavier bullet going slightly slower.

[ratassassin]

I've read in a few places that the GMX bullets need to be traveling at least 2000 feet per second at point of impact to expand properly. The gilding metal Hornady is using is a bit harder than the copper Barnes uses. While I'm not a big fan of Barnes, I think that for .308 a Barnes bullet will probably expand better at typical .308 speeds. Guys on the forums are saying the GMX bullets are better for faster calibers like .300 Win Mag. I loaded 150 grain GMX for my Howa .308 and didn't get sub-MOA accuracy. I'll play around some more with the ones I have left and if I can't get them to shoot, I'll probably go try the Barnes plastic tipped ones next.

[Jay61cal]

Thanks I will keep that in mind..I've heard the e-tip is pretty accurate but if I can't get any promising results with the rest of what I have then I will switch to the barnes or gmx

[Frank]

I'm obsessed with accuracy and wanna know that i can shoot a yote at 400+ yrds if i had to

Well, a 20", 308 in model 10PC may at least make the above requirements challenging anyhow. Other than that, it can be a number of issues. For starters, my sense is that a bullet in the 165/168 gr weight will likely give better, more "consistent" accuracy than a 150gr bullet in 308 caliber.Powders I've seen &/or heard doing very well in the 308 are IMR 4064 in the 44-45.5gr(?) range, & BL-C2 perhaps in the 46-47(+?) gr weight? Again, both with the 165/68 gr bullets.Good Luck on Your ProjectFrank

[DirtyDave]

I'm obsessed with accuracy and wanna know that i can shoot a yote at 400+ yrds if i had to.....i thought the e-tip was a accurate leadfree bullet?

Some guns dont like certain bullets no matter what you do. I am working on loads with 4 different bullets right now for my 7.62x54r, just have to experiment

[Jay61cal]

I hear u frank but the 150gr e-tip is the same length as 168gr amax so decided to start with that grain in leadfree..are u suggesting I step up to a heavier bullet in leadfree? What about seating depth? I've heard they need more of a jump but what exactly is acceptable? How far off the lands should I seat the e-tips?

[CA Desert Dog]

[Frank]

You're almost as bad as I am Red. But you did good (caught it)! LOL Sorry, Jay, I accidentally omitted that I was talking about "lead" bullets. And yes, the non-lead are longer, so a 150gr non lead could be as long or longer than a 165gr lead bullet for example. I would have to double check the seating depth on my non lead loads, as I cannot trust my memory(obviously/lol). I "believe" our non lead rounds are seated pretty deep. These are with the lighter bullets in any given caliber such as you are doing with your 308. While I am sure our experiences with non lead bullets are not anywhere near as some other folks, we have had nothing but outstanding results with Nosler non-lead bullets on both target & coyote. Our results so far, have been miserable (accuracy) with Barnes bullets in handloaded ammo. My son's 270wsm however, loves the Barnes factory ammo, so go figure. UGH! I really do HATE this non lead c*^p. Sorry for mudding the waterFrank

[Jay61cal]

Yeah I'm not sure why dessert dog is eating popcorn at 3am..it's not healthy and goes straight to the gut lol..i understand that leadfree need a "jump" but does that mean start at factory length (2.80)or just deeper then u would seat a lead bullet (2.833)?

[Frank]

I honestly would not know the correct answer to that. For me, it is mostly trial and error. I also know, that my 223, 40gr Nosler non-lead rounds are shorter in COL than book specs. How much shorter (or longer) than my 40gr Nosler Lead bullet I do not know and would have to go out and measure to be exact, but it is cold and wet outside. Ok, I'm Lazy then. lol My 50gr Nosler lead bullet loads are considerably longer in O.L than book specs. So, again, just depends. A phone call to the bullet Manufacturer may help. I would imagine starting out at book specs for the non lead may be good, as book specs are often times much shorter in O.L. than a "lead" round can actually be. So, in other words, your guess is as good as mine. lol Pretty sad, I know. But hey, did I mention that I HATE this non lead stuff?Sorry I cannot be of more help, Jay, but hopefully someone else will be.Frank

[Colin]

Same here...trial and error. I got lucky with my .25-06 as the first loads with the E-Tip shot about 1/2 inch. But my other calibers are a different story with the E-Tip. I think you will just have to mess with the OAL to nail it down. They can shoot good (once you figure it out) and seem to expand well in game.

[CA Desert Dog]

I hate the non-lead stuff too Frank. When I think of the time and money I have wasted attempting to achieve lead bullet accuracy with non-lead projectiles, it makes me sick (and even more disgusted with CA legislators). In my opinion (and certainly not based on any scientific studies), all of the reloading factors for the non-lead stuff seem a lot more critical than loading with lead. Plus, it seems like different rifles of the same caliber react drastically different when shooting non-lead loads. When it comes to reloading for non-lead projectiles, I am in the "trial & error" camp with Frank. Unfortunately, with respect to non-lead stuff, it is a very expensive camp. Just when I think I have found a good non-lead load for a 22 or 6.5 caliber, the consistency is simply not there. Flyers come out of nowhere and I am done with trying to achieve consistent, accurate loads. The only thing I have had shoot OK are the 50 grain Varmint Grenades from my RRA Coyote rifle. And that is only if all the planets are in alignment and my che is flowing smoothly. However, I have found that it takes 6 well placed Varmint Grenades to kill a coyote....LOL I shot one coyote with them and I'll never do it again. They're OK for ground rats but no good for big critters. They are not a "bang-flop" round.Oh, my "popcorn eating post" was simply because I feel this topic is like putting a party dress on a skunk. I wasn't jamming on any of you guys, I was just reading the comments. Try not to get too frustrated reloading for lead free zones or you'll end up a cranky old man like me. DEATH TO THE CONDORS! :eck05:P.S.- Late night popcorn does go right to the gut....sadly. I love it though

[Jay61cal]

Lol totally understandable..I will have to experiment lots more with this bullet I guess..and yes it does get expensive that's why I'm here tryin to get as many pointers as possible...back to the loading bench

[CA Desert Dog]

Well good luck! And I mean that sincerely....

[oz_fox_hunter]

The ADI manual lists 44 grains of Varget as the starting load for 150 gr. bullets. You still got 3 grains of development left to go, then the option of testing different powders for that brass/primer/projectile combination.The group shot using 44.5 grains of varget shows the potential is there. I'd keep adding powder in 0.5 grain incriments as well as test a few loads using a slightly faster burning powder like IMR4895 (AD2206H down here). When I was developing loads for the 308 I tested various combinations and found although Varget was giving adequate results for the rifle I was using, when I switched to the faster burning IMR4895 the occasional flyers became a thing of the past. That's my 2 cents.

[CA Desert Dog]

Very interesting because I was getting those occasional flyers using Varget too. Hmmmmmmmmm With the 6.5 Grendel and Barnes bullets I'd have two touching and then one an inch away. Oh dang it...here we go again.

[Jay61cal]

Thanks for the 2 cents but the 44.5 gr target is for the 168gr amax and starting point for 150 gr leadfree with Varget is 42.5 and 46.5 max according to Nosler..I've done some reading and found I have a seating depth issue..Nosler suggests loading the e-tip .050-.100 of the lands so I had the bullet too close and need to back it off...I'll b heading to the range as soon as the weather says I can

[Shoot-it]

I would worry more about bullet drop at 400 then those groups.A coyote is not that big like a deer or hog.The e tips box should have came with a piece of paper that said to start off .080 off lands they like the jump.

[Bisley]

I'm obsessed with accuracy and wanna know that i can shoot a yote at 400+ yrds if i had to.....i thought the e-tip was a accurate leadfree bullet?

First off, accurate lead-free is an oxymoron (giant shrimp, smart politician). Second off, even with a 1.3 moa group (the largest one shown) that comes out just over 5 moa at 400 yards. If you can't hit fur with that, you got major problems other than you rifle!5 moa at 400 yards with lead-free, come on, spend less time worrying and more time hunting.

[Jay61cal]

Lol yeah you make a good point...and yes I tend to spend too much time worrying and need to knock that crap off..I was just hoping to get better accuracy from a product that costs $30 for a box of 50...I will try one more time to tighten up the groups then I will just settle for my bests results..thanks guys and I'll let u know how it goes!

[whatjeffhunts]

I've read in a few places that the GMX bullets need to be traveling at least 2000 feet per second at point of impact to expand properly. The gilding metal Hornady is using is a bit harder than the copper Barnes uses. While I'm not a big fan of Barnes, I think that for .308 a Barnes bullet will probably expand better at typical .308 speeds. Guys on the forums are saying the GMX bullets are better for faster calibers like .300 Win Mag. I loaded 150 grain GMX for my Howa .308 and didn't get sub-MOA accuracy. I'll play around some more with the ones I have left and if I can't get them to shoot, I'll probably go try the Barnes plastic tipped ones next.

300 win mag is my primary so that would make sense why I like them lol

[Frank]

you make a good point

Yeah, Jay, I hate it when folks start inputting LOGIC into this stuff. LOL BUT, is what I was referring to with the first line on my original post above. This non-lead handloading can definitely make a sane man cry. I mean, look at Red. LOL Just kidding, Red, as I am in the same boat. Being forced to use this stuff is not only criminal, but expensive & time consuming as you say. Sometimes going up or down a half grain of powder can also eliminate flyers. Sometimes! Could be anything of course!Good LuckFrank

[Shoot-it]

I have bad news for you condor zone hunters 2 baby condor chicks were hatched today at the San Diego zoo!

[CA Desert Dog]

The only comfort is knowing that if they are set free without a cadre of humans to feed and care for them, they'll eat foreign objects and die from stupidity. If the tree huggers find french fries in the dead bird's stomachs, we'll have new legislation to ban french fries. That'll really pi$$ me off.

[Desert Fox]

Haven't had a chance to play with Hornady GMX yet but Barnes bullet is plenty accurate. Barnes now labeling their bullet match grade accuracy. I agree! Here's a few sample groups.