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transportation of gun and ammo


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#1 rude robert

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:37 PM

Today, someone at Turners was telling another customer that when you transport your handgun it must be locked up and same with the ammo. Is this true?
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#2 rude robert

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:37 PM

I lock up the hand gun, but never heard of the ammo needing to be locked as well
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#3 Braz

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:39 PM

The handgun must be unloaded and locked up. The ammo does not have to be locked up but it cannot be in the same lock box as the handgun.
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#4 rude robert

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:17 AM

Thanks Braz, I thought that is the way it was. So many people with good intentions, probably reacting with some fear as well, I guess
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#5 D-Man

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:44 AM

Actually ammo and gun can be together. In fact the magazines may be loaded just not inserted into the firearm within California. Federal Interstate travel requires the ammo to not be in the magazine and to be either in a locked trunk or in a locked container to travel between states. Within California you can have the handgun with the loaded magazines, not inserted into the firearm, in the same locked container. The court case that set the precedence was People v Walker from 1996 where it was determined in a jury trial that a shotgun with a stock saddle with rounds in it was not considered a loaded firearm. This is how people are able to open carry an unloaded firearm with a loaded magazine on their person (not within 1,000 feet of the lateral edge of a school) and not be arrested. If you have further questions feel free to PM me. Also for those that say the ammo has to be separate from the firearm container, little challenge for you, find it for me in the California Penal Code, good luck because it isn't in there! Good link for details here.Darren
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#6 4RHUNTS

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:04 AM

And another thing to know. You can carry an unloaded handgun in a vehicle as long as it is not concealed. Not a good idea though. The only legal way to conceal a unloaded handgun in a vehicle in Ca. is for it to be in a locked container or in the trunk of the vehicle. You can not have it in the glove box or center console. The ammo can be stored in the locked container or trunk of the vehicle with the handgun. Magazines can be loaded, just not inserted into the pistol. Revolver cylinders must be empty.

#7 rude robert

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:01 AM

This is something i heard at Turners, I was scratching my head on that one for sure.
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#8 packhorse9

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:08 AM

In Ca. a handgun must be transported in a approved LOCKED case. That is the law

#9 ShooterJohn

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:14 AM

Packhorse is correct.

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.


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#10 Jeff

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:22 AM

Thanks John, was just going to post that.
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#11 ShooterJohn

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:23 AM

It's the reason the guy on the DFG show Wild Justice got busted for having his pistol laying on the seat next to him.

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#12 4RHUNTS

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:05 PM

The key word in these penal code sections 12025 and 12026 is "concealed". The only way you can legally have a CONCEALED handgun in a motor vehicle is when it is either in a locked container or in the trunk. It is concealed in a locked container and it is also concealed in the trunk. These sections allow one to conceal the handgun in those manners only. If the handgun is unloaded it can be transported in a motor vehicle in plain view.The other wording in 12026 talks about transporting the handgun to and from a motor vehicle in a locked container. This is again, an exception that allows a person to carry a concealed handgun in public to and from a motor vehicle.This info is from Calif. Open Carry California Open CarryThis document is an abridged list of all relevant California laws for citizens who do not have a CCW permit but otherwise chooseto legally carry or transport firearms. Most of the information here is copied directly from the Penal Code.12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following:(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable ofbeing concealed upon the person.(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.(f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who residesor is temporarily within this state … who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place ofresidence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, orother firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.(:lol: No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the UnitedStates or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state … to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry,either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legalresident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.© Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031.As long as one complies with 12025 (does not conceal), and 12031 (does not load the firearm under most circumstances), andavoids the other pitfalls (detailed on page 2), then he/she is legally open carrying, and sections 12026.1 and 12026.2 areunnecessary. However, quite often open carry is not practical or desired, or is restricted due to other obscure laws (see page 2),so an understanding of 12026.1 and 12026.2 is important.12026.1 and 12026.2 are almost always misinterpreted, and in many ways. The most common misinterpretation is that thesesections are restrictions. They are not. They are exemptions to 12025. You cannot be charged with 12026.x, only 12025. Whenyou transport your firearms concealed (openly is legal) you must use one of the 12026.x exemptions.The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not applywhen transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are nolocation or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which(motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore beapplied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit thetransport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.Another common misconception is the belief that ammunition cannot be stored in the same case as a firearm, or that it must belocked up separately somehow. This is not true. There is no code to support this myth. See the second page of this flyer formore information about loaded firearms.12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or istemporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon theperson, provided that the following applies to the firearm:(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utilityor glove compartment.(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, thefirearm is contained within a locked container.(:drool: The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or otherfirearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.© As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,combination lock, or similar locking device.12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following: … (1) through (20) omitted from this document.(:yikes[1]: In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded,kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorizedlocations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.© This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable ofbeing concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motorvehicle.Note: PC 12025 and 12026 apply only to concealed handguns. There are no restrictions on carrying rifles or shotguns inthese sections. They can be transported unlocked, openly or concealed. However 12031 and other restrictions do apply.CaliforniaOpenCarry.org http://www.californi...iaOpenCarry.pdf revision 2/24/10California Open Carry, continued12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or herperson or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place oron any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers areauthorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or onany public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officerto inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.(f) As used in this section, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon. *(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge orshell in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clipthereof attached to the firearm. **(h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, orany officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful purposes connected with that business, from having aloaded firearm within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful possession of private property from having aloaded firearm on that property.(l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or herplace of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.* Most counties have ordinances prohibiting shooting near roads, residences, etc. This effectively makes carrying loaded illegal inall but the most remote areas of unincorporated territory.** In “People v. Clark” (1996), the California Court of Appeal clarified that in order to be “loaded” a firearm must haveammunition “placed into a position from which it can be fired”. It even went so far as to point out as an example of what is notloaded to include shells attached to a shotgun inside a buttstock shell carrier.** There is a common misconception that merely possessing both a firearm and ammunition in close proximity legally equates toloaded. This mistake stems from several PC sections that do not apply to the law-abiding gun owner. 12001(j) only applies to12023 (carry with intent to commit a felony). 12021.5 only applies to street gang crimes as defined in 186.22. 12022.2 onlyapplies to armor piercing ammunition. 12025(B)(6)(A) is a sentence enhancement which only applies if one violates 12025(carrying concealed). 171e only applies inside the State Capitol, legislative offices, or office or residence of the Governor.In an emergency, 12031 includes additional limited exceptions, where loading is permitted:(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise belawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave dangerand that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate"means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger andbefore the arrival of its assistance.(k) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of a loaded firearm by any person while engaged in the act of making orattempting to make a lawful arrest.Other Restrictions:171 b,c,d Cannot carry in any state or local public building or at any legislative meeting required to be open to the public. Cannot carry in theState Capitol, legislative offices, office of the Governor, Governor’s residence, etc.626.9 Cannot carry “in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know” is within 1000 feet of a K-12 school. Must be transportedunloaded in a locked case or vehicle trunk. Cannot carry on the grounds of a university without written permission.36 CFR 2.4 (a) Effective February 22, 2010, the Coburn Amendment (s512 of HR627) forces the National Parks to allow possession and carry offirearms in the Parks. However, in California, the Park Service believes that 36 CFR 2.4 (a) (iii) (prohibits the use of firearms) still applies, and thatit triggers 12031(f) and therefore loading is not legal. While this appears to violate the intent of the Coburn Amendment, it would be wise to onlycarry unloaded at this time in the National Parks (accept in one’s campsite, where 12031 does not apply).CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a) Cannot carry in a State Park. However firearms may be possessed within temporary lodging or a vehiclewhen unloaded and “packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.”39 CFR 232.1 (l) Cannot carry on U.S. Postal Service property.49 CFR 1540.111 and PC 171.5 Cannot carry in “sterile areas” (areas where access is controlled by security screening) of airports.Local Laws: Cities and counties may have there own limits on possession or use of firearms. However these local laws cannot legally preemptState law. Contact your local government or local law enforcement agencies to determine what these limits may be.National Forest and BLM: On these federal lands firearms are generally permitted, if carried and used in a safe manner, and if the users complywith state and county laws. Most of these lands qualify as “unincorporated territory”, but there are some restrictions on shooting (near structures,developed areas, roads, bodies of water) so 12031(f) applies in these areas. Check with your local ranger station for any other local restrictions

#13 4RHUNTS

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:23 PM

After all is said and done though...I think it is really a bad idea to open carry on your person and/or in a vehicle. I think one is just asking for issues to present themselves in a bad way. The right thing for Ca. to do is allow CCW permits for the law abiding citizen.

#14 airgunny

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 06:44 PM

very interesting info here. now I can follow future posts. :roflmao3[1]: as far as turners. I've dealt with that store for years and always thought the counterguys were just a little "too into" their jobs. (knowing everything/god complex).
weapons are nothing but tools to be used properly. like any other tool.




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