17 replies to this topic

[foggysurf]

i am very new to duck hunting, and have the exclusive rights to hunt a farmers pond (~1 acre, 3-4ft deep) near Montezuma Slough. there is a deep whole i can comforaable sit in, and i camo'd myself, equipment and surroundings real good. Unfortuanely, its a bit off the path of most birds i see flying around (don't know how to call), but i hear a lot of shots fired so im close enough. I've also invested in a dozen mallard decoys which i set up according to the wind pattern and i swear they brought in a bunch of spoonies that landed juuuuuust outside. damn. I read somewhere that local birds don't fall for decoys as much as ones migrating.I've only shot one female mallard, and missed about 10 others but those were 30+ yard shots with flying speeds near 40MPH and i am not that good a shot. In fact, i have stopped firing at those distances now, and will only shoot if its VERY clean. Also made friends with a female hooded merganser (terrible at bird ID and also trying not to shoot females) that could care less about me. Even taking my decoys out, she swam around me. wierd.a few rookie questions:1. Are the birds in this area migratory or natives? i arrive about 30 min before first light, and EVERY time I spook out 10-12 birds, which do not return. In fact, last week, there must have 20 geese that flushed out when i walked up. sounded like a helicopter taking off. The ONLY action is in the first 30-45 minutes then usually nothing and im guessing those are the initial birds maybe circling back? The one i got had landed with two males and swam over to me until she was about 10 feet away, and i couldn't resist. I didnt sleuse BTW!2. My gun is an 1100 with a modified choke, and i am using 2's - should i switch to 4's?3. What kind of weather and where up north are we hoping for? Are the birds coming from Oregon or Washington? I've hunted all the bad weather days we have had and stuck out 6 hours each time riding out a few micro-fronts but that didn't seem to help. Thanks for advice or help!Foggy  1.jpg   34.13K   18 downloads

[JRW]

It sounds like your doin most of it right. I would get a call and learn how to use it. they make instructional cds and dvds and youtube is very helpful. As for shot size I think you have the right size. My choice is 2s. maybe 3's but 4's are a little small in my opinion. When it starts to freeze up north the birds start down this way. Have you tried waiting until shoot time and jump shooting the pond? if you could sneek close enough so you are in range when they get off the water that is a good way to get a couple. They wont come back after that but it sounds like they arnt anyway. Just a thought. Have fun bud its addicting!JRW

[mean]

I would do as suggested. I shoot montezuma weekly, not private land; public only. We get pintail, mallard, spoonies, and divers. You wont likely see a diver in your decoys as you are setting out mallards. The big bird push has not happened yet, but soon it will. I am sure it is a combo of all land up north. I agree that you need a call of some sort. No matter how "bad" you think you are it might help. get the cd/dvd and start to practice. You are on the right path just hang in there and hold on. Its gonna get great out here shortly.Oh btw your gun and shot combo are perfect for what you are trying to do. I think if you want to shoot geese you need no smaller than 2 or bb but that's just me. Just don't try and anything outside of 40 yards with your combo. You don't want to hurt them. They die a horrible death that way. Your thought on a clean kill are perfect. Keep it up and good hunting.

[Jeff]

I've been shooting out at Montezuma this season as well. It looks like JRW and Mean answered your questions, so I just wanted to say keep it up. If you've got access to a boat, try getting out into the marsh on the public land, you might see more birds.

[foggysurf]

Thank you all for the replies. Got super busy with work and have not had a chance to hunt or post. 1. Call - i got a PHP2 from Cabelas w DVD for $30. I didn't get any lanyard, and found that either i was spitting in it excessively which got the reeds wet and therefore useless, or pulling it in and out of my jacket pocket is causing condensation to wet the reeds. will practice.2. Jumping the pond - quite possible, but seems a little unfair?3. Addictive - very! Im trying only to hunt on Fridays to keep this hole relatively quiet but i keep my gun and ammo when i travel now, cuz you never know! I like to surf, and hunting has that same: desire, hope, anticipation, getting close, closer, BAM!, massive head rush. whew. repeat.Looks like we got a big rain coming to NorCal. Foggy

[tinhunter]

Jump shooting isn't unfair unless you are creeping over the bank and sleucing several with one shot. Jump shooting waterfowl is just like flushing upland game; if they are on the wing then it is ethical to shoot.If you are having trouble calling just keep practicing. I take my calls with me in the truck on the off season and practice while I am driving. You might want to try and get some whistles. Whistle calls for ducks are easier to learn and work really well; since most ducks actually whistle. The drake mallard whistle is easy to do and can be effective in getting mallards to come close.A lot of the calls out there will stick when they get wet; either from rain or spit. A really good call that doesn't stick and won't break the bank is the ones that Pacific Flyway Company makes. He is out of Elk Grove and makes custom duck and speck calls. You can run your call under the tap and blow it and it will still work. His calls are only $45 and if you don't like the way it sounds he will refund your money. I just started using one of his calls this year and I have been real happy with the way it sounds and works since I got it. I desperately needed a call that wouldn't stick since I am a spitter when it comes to calling and this call has so far fit the bill.Good luck with your future hunts once you get the pond hunting figured out you will be hooked forever.

[foggysurf]

oh im hooked.What a great day Saturday! The rain at 5am was NUTS and first light was just friggin crazy- birds in all directions, at all different heights and at different speeds. guess how many i got. yikes, im a bad shot. The problem with my main set up is that most birds fly right over the back of me which i cant see, so birds just friggin just appear at 40mph and i have no chance. so i picked up my decoys and re-set in about a foot of water near the middle of the pond on a submerged mound with an old fence and some cover (not enough maybe) which gave me a 360 view. of course my 18" chair was an inch under water LOL. from there at least i could see em coming and made some calls which seemed to at least turn em towards me. there were 8-10 times a pair of mallards or spoonies would circle (several laps, sometimes) at a hundred yards, drop to 50 yards for a good a better look, then split. super cool to watch - maybe they had already been shot at? wonder if they saw me?thanks for the advice!Foggy

[tinhunter]

Did the birds flare off or just leave after looking for a little bit? If they were coming in and flared then they saw you or something that scared them. If they just left then you very likely had a problem with the decoys. It happens quite often, your setup won't be liked by all of the birds all of the time. If you see it happening with a lot of birds don't be afraid to go out and move the dekes into some different configuration, sometimes the change is all that is needed to start pulling birds in.

[foggysurf]

they definitely did not flare off. i stop calling once birds turn at me and a few times they even started landing (or started gliding with feet out) , which by the way, has got to be the coolest thing to watch. talk about getting the blood flowing. so I think you are spot on with my decoy set up. my rigging is a little long for the depth and i was in a hurry when i moved and they kinda clustered. when i was done, i criss crossed a lot of 'deeper' sections, and nothing got over 4' deep so i can i walk the whole thing and do a better job.actually i have a super newbie question with my decoys: i bought some G&H Weighted Keel Magnum Mallard Decoys and just noticed the keel appears to have a plug. Was i supposed to fill the keels with sand? When the fronts came through and the wind picked up, it seemed they were really rocking. Thanks, Foggy

[Jeff]

Birds flare for more reasons than your calling. If they see you, they'll flare. Your face, hands, head swiveling, a light patch on your clothing, sometimes that's all it takes. Cover is your friend. Definitely make sure your dekes are spread out, and not "mating" as we call it. Leave a nice, open "alley" for them to come into, and if they are diver dekes, make a nice line coming into a cluster.

[mean]

If you wanna hunt divers this is the best set up IMHO.... Just rigg them all together. There are kits, i made this one myself for about 10 bucks.  1.jpg   17.51K   19 downloads

[foggysurf]

Thanks for the tip, and quite timely as i am obviously doing something wrong with the spread cuz birds were landing everywhere BUT near them. Only saw a few mallards yesterday, but a friggin ton of wigeon. Must have been 50 or 60 swimming all over the pond making a racket. They would just materialize at 40mph gaining and losing altitude like mad. how the HELL are you supposed to shoot at that. Bunch of low flying geese came REALLY close, like 30yards, but with 3's chambered, and a lousy shot, i just watched. I can always hear them coming and have time to reload, so ill get a box of buck and keep a few shells with me.my rookie question for the day:1. what species of ducks are 'puddle ducks'Cheers, Darren

[tinhunter]

With it being this late in the season you might want to back off on putting a lot of mallards in the spread. By now the birds have seen it all and a lot of mallards together typically mean danger to a duck now; try putting other types of decoys out like widgeon, teal, spoonies and even coot decoys. If you do put mallards out only put a few and try to make them paired up if you can; the birds are beginning to pair up this time of year and will continue on through February until they breed in March. If you have some full body decoys place some on the bank, log, or even bend over some tules and set one or two decoys on it; ducks like to get out of the water at times and rest and sun themselves and ducks out of the water equal safety to incoming ducks.For some reason I have been having trouble with the widgeon this year as well. Normally they come right into the call regardless of whether or not I have widgeon decoys in the spread. This year they just want to fly high and talk a lot. Are the ducks swimming in an area of the pond that you could get near and hide? If they are landing and swimming in an area of the pond that you can hide, move there. Put your decoys out as you normally would in your normal blind area and then hide where the ducks will want to go; you should be able to get some birds. Do you do your spread the same each time you hunt? If you do the birds may be keyed into your position and are avoiding the area. You can use this to your advantage by putting out the dekes the same way and hiding away from the decoys where the ducks will go to avoid the spread. Watch what the birds are doing on your pond and try to mimic that with your spread, including the location they like to hang out. If you can't hide near them see if you can't find a hide in the flight path they like to take into your pond and pass shoot them; they typically will use the same path with similar weather conditions. When the birds are coming fast don't shoot as they make their swing it is a more difficult shot. Take a shot as they are heading into you or angling into your direction before they bank and cross your blind; they are easier to hit this way since they will be flying into the shot stream rather than you trying to lead them on a passing shotPuddle ducks are classified as dabblers. For waterfowl there are dabblers and divers for ducks, and then geese and swans. Here is a link to waterfowl identification from DU: http://www.ducks.org...ng/waterfowl-id

[foggysurf]

wow - what a great reply with lots to think about, thanks a lot!1. The pond is actually pinched in the middle, so almost 2 ponds, and with all the rain the second 'east' part is much larger but right next to the main road. Unfortunately, the east part is really where all the widgeon are landing. In fact, the singles would land in the 'west' half right near me, and after a few squeeks back n forth, the singles would pick up and plop over to the others - just fascinating to watch and friggin frustrating as hell cuz i could sense it coming. Geese, mallards and the few spoonies all have landed in the west part (maybe its deeper - i know its about 2-4' deep).2. I think a major problem i have is my blind, or lack of: its just me hidden behind some old wild-asparagus clumps and a barbed wire fence LOL! I remain still and have OK camo, but i think next year im gunna build something or someting mobile (for another post over summer). 3. My hunting days are at least 8-10 days apart (usually 14 days), and although i did find some shells from poachers, i have mixed up the number and arraignment of my dekes each time (i only own mallards) and have both sides.Best regards, Foggy

[clampdaddy]

I like #2 shot. I just seem to have less swimmers with them than when I shoot #3 or #4 shot and it seems to be just big enough to break those big goose wing bones. The last few years I belonged to a duck club and my uncle who is an old time duck hunter was very set in his ways about how the decoys should be set out. This year I struck out on my own and started hunting a local refuge and have done some experimenting with my decoy layout. I'd noticed that the majority of late season birds like to skirt the outside edge of a decoy spread so the best trick I've come up with for bagging wary birds is I've actually been putting my decoys away from where I'm hunting and then throw a single sprig decoy right in front of me. The main pond I've been hunting is pretty small, about 60 yards wide, so I've putting my decoys near the bank on the other side of the pond. I've gotten some funny looks from other hunters as they pass by but all of those decoy shy birds get funneled right by me for an easy 15-25 yard shot.

[tinhunter]

I'd noticed that the majority of late season birds like to skirt the outside edge of a decoy spread so the best trick I've come up with for bagging wary birds is I've actually been putting my decoys away from where I'm hunting and then throw a single sprig decoy right in front of me. The main pond I've been hunting is pretty small, about 60 yards wide, so I've putting my decoys near the bank on the other side of the pond. I've gotten some funny looks from other hunters as they pass by but all of those decoy shy birds get funneled right by me for an easy 15-25 yard shot.

That is exactly what I was telling Foggy surf to do. As clampdaddy explained, getting birds to come in does not always entail getting them to come to the decoys; they will a lot of the time avoid them, but you should use that to your advantage by placing the dekes in a manner to get them to funnel over to you. You decoys should always be used to entice the birds and get the birds to go where you want them and stay away from where you don't want them. If this means using them to block the birds then so be it.2. I think a major problem i have is my blind, or lack of: its just me hidden behind some old wild-asparagus clumps and a barbed wire fence LOL! I remain still and have OK camo, but i think next year im gunna build something or someting mobile (for another post over summer). If your pond has a lack of cover you might want to try a layout blind on the bank. They are low profile and work great. If there is some decent shallow water in the pond you might want to try a rat coffin. The rat coffin is a plastic coffin that is around 10" deep that you can lay in the water and not get wet. You can camouflage it how ever you want. http://refugerat.com...-gear/ratcoffinIn the off season I would pick up some more decoys of the different types of birds that you are seeing in your pond. That way when the different birds are migrating through you can target them better with proper decoys.

[foggysurf]

well, you are spot on with a few things from your post!First off, the teal were friggin everywhere today and made up 99% of the birds I saw. I brought out a book-guide and a binoculars, and voila. Just before shooting time, the ding-dang birds were damn near running into me landing like mad and by first light not a sole was flying and i was encircled by green-winged teal sitting as close as 10 yards from me. I counted 88 birds to west of me (see attached pic - there are NO decoys in this pic) and double that to my right, but NOTHING flying, just chirping like mad and swimming circles. there was nothing i could do for almost an hour. in fact, i NEVER took a shot. lessons learned: 1. my cover sucks: they saw me without a doubt, but i wasnt moving or shooting, so they didnt fly away (cigarrettes prolly didnt help). when i finally got up and moved to the "better" spot (the ensuing ruckus looked like one of those DU videos) with 'better' cover, sure enough almost all those birds returned and landed where i had just left. nice-felt like a slot machine. In fact, later in day (like around 11am!) i moved yet again to the east side; scared the birds up, flew circles like mad, and then landed back in the WEST side. take home: make better cover and take a shower, cuz i stink at hunting.2. the males were standing on the shore! WTF, just like you said - great advice! Actually, i tried crawling on the ground (through cow sh*t and pee) and i almost jumped a few. At 10am the geese started flying real low and landing out in a huge pasture behind this pond, so i walked over and sat for a half hour and got real close at shooting one - THAT was exciting, but not as maddening as watching about 10 honkers land RIGHT on my blind as i sat in this field (pure cruelty). At NOON teal were still flying around - but i wonder if its cuz i never shot my gun, so they figured i was harmless (which evidently i am).Anyways, i counted 15 days of duck hunting (shot one female mallard opening week! LOL) this season and learned a ton and had an absolute blast each time - thanks for all the info you'all have given out; just exceptionally grateful for it. No one likes to be the noob, let alone give advice to em, but CPC forum is invaluable.Cheers, Foggyps - those teal at 10 yards - couldn't do it. At one point, with my head turned all the way to the right, 2 males and 1 female swam up, and were just looking at me. It was explained that as long as their in flight its fair, but i new once i shot, the whole group would all fly-out for the day, and watching countless ducks swim around me was hilarious. pss - most of the shots i heard were late morning, even a bunch around 11am. Fog was thick.

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[tinhunter]

lessons learned: 1. my cover sucks: they saw me without a doubt, but i wasnt moving or shooting, so they didnt fly away (cigarrettes prolly didnt help). when i finally got up and moved to the "better" spot (the ensuing ruckus looked like one of those DU videos) with 'better' cover, sure enough almost all those birds returned and landed where i had just left. nice-felt like a slot machine. In fact, later in day (like around 11am!) i moved yet again to the east side; scared the birds up, flew circles like mad, and then landed back in the WEST side. take home: make better cover and take a shower, cuz i stink at hunting.They may not have seen you when you were hiding. As you noticed, it is movement that is the biggest reason birds flare, not your camouflage. The birds may have seen you though since it sounds like they just flat out wanted to be in the pond that day.2. the males were standing on the shore! WTF, just like you said - great advice! Actually, i tried crawling on the ground (through cow sh*t and pee) and i almost jumped a few. This is an indicator to me that the birds feel real safe in this pond and like to use it as a rest area. If I were you I would be picking up some full body decoys in the off season to use in my spread on the shore and in the real shallow sections of the water.At 10am the geese started flying real low and landing out in a huge pasture behind this pond, so i walked over and sat for a half hour and got real close at shooting one - THAT was exciting, but not as maddening as watching about 10 honkers land RIGHT on my blind as i sat in this field (pure cruelty). At NOON teal were still flying around - but i wonder if its cuz i never shot my gun, so they figured i was harmless (which evidently i am).Sounds like a good candidate for a layout blind and a lot of goose decoys or the cheap route of using rags and flags. You could also place some shells on the shore near the pond to help entice the geese to come in when you are duck hunting. Just keep the honker decoys separate from the duck decoys; they don't usually mix together, but they will share the same water. Honkers like to be a little separate from ducks; specks and snows will mix right in with the ducks. ps - those teal at 10 yards - couldn't do it. At one point, with my head turned all the way to the right, 2 males and 1 female swam up, and were just looking at me. It was explained that as long as their in flight its fair, but i new once i shot, the whole group would all fly-out for the day, and watching countless ducks swim around me was hilarious. Sluicing birds is not illegal, but it can be considered unethical depending on whom you are talking to. You don't have to sluice them when they are that close if you don't feel comfortable with that; just stand up. If you stand up they will take to the wing and you can shoot them. If you are worried about not being able to get most of the birds and having them leave for the day, just watch them for awhile. Wait until the ducks are swimming close to each other and in shotgun range and then stand up. With the birds close together when they take to the wing you increase your chances of bringing down two or three birds. Hell if they are close enough you may even get a scotch double.