15 replies to this topic

[.22guy]

My hunting buddy and I are looking into starting crow hunting this upcoming season.I'm a little uncertain on the ammo, and searching around hasn't given me definitive answer.Do we need to use non-lead ammo for crows here in the non-lead zone? I'm assuming 99% of the hunting we will be doing will fall in this zone.Thanks in advance for your input!

[Nalgi]

No, you only have to use steel on migratory birds.

[BullsEye]

I found this online here:http://www.fgc.ca.go...irdregs.asp#485American Crow Regulations; a synopsis: Under federal laws and regulations, crows are a migratory bird but not a migratory game bird. Existing federal regulations allow the take of crows (consistent with State regulations) under both hunting and depredation order regulations. Under state laws and regulations, crows are not defined as migratory game birds, but as nongame birds. Take under state regulations is allowed under both hunting and depredation and nuisance provisions. Under the State hunting regulations, a license is required, a season is established, methods of take are stipulated. Shooting hours are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. Only shotguns, falconry and archery equipment may be used; electronic calls may be used. (Although the crow regulations are published with the upland bird regulations, since they are not upland game birds, but nongame birds, you cannot use the upland game bird shooting hours regulations, but must go back to the Fish and Game Code, Section 3000, for general shooting hours for birds and mammals.) Under State depredation regulations, only the landowner or tenants or an others authorized in writing may take crows at any time and in any number to eliminate depredation, health hazard or nuisance. Shotguns, archery and falconry, and toxicants under additional regulations, may be used. Selected laws and regulations related to American Crows Migratory Bird Treaty Act Migratory bird defined in § 50CFR10.13 Includes American Crow Migratory game bird defined in § 50CFR20.11 does not include Corvidae (crows) Federal hunting regulations for crows are defined in § 50CFR20.133: § 20.133 Hunting regulations for crows. (a) Crows may be taken, possessed, transported, exported, or imported, only in accordance with such laws or regulations as may be prescribed by a State pursuant to this section. ( Except in the State of Hawaii, where no crows shall be taken, States may by statute or regulation prescribe a hunting season for crows. Such State statutes or regulations may set forth the method of taking, the bag and possession limits, the dates and duration of the hunting season, and such other regulations as may be deemed appropriate, subject to the following limitations for each State: (1) Crows shall not be hunted from aircraft; (2) The hunting season or seasons on crows shall not exceed a total of 124 days during a calendar year; (3) Hunting shall not be permitted during the peak crow nesting period within a State; and (4) Crows may only be taken by firearms, bow and arrow, and falconry. Federal depredation order for crows as defined in § 50CFR21.43: § 21.43 Depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows and magpies. A Federal permit shall not be required to control yellow-headed redwinged, rusty, and Brewer’s blackbirds, cowbirds, all grackles, crows, and magpies, when found committing or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in such numbers and manner as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance: Provided: (a) That none of the birds killed pursuant to this section, nor their plumage, shall be sold or offered for sale, but may be possessed, transported, and otherwise disposed of or utilized. ( That any person exercising any of the privileges granted by this section shall permit at all reasonable times including during actual operations, any Federal or State game or deputy game agent, warden, protector, or other game law enforcement officer free and unrestricted access over the premises on which such operations have been or are being conducted; and shall furnish promptly to such officer whatever information he may require, concerning said operations. © That nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the killing of such birds contrary to any State laws or regulations; and that none of the privileges granted under this section shall be exercised unless the person possesses whatever permit as may be required for such activities by the State concerned. [39 FR 1178, Jan. 4, 1974, as amended at 54 FR 47525, Nov. 15, 1989] Fish and Game Code General Shooting Hours for Birds and Mammals defined in § 3000 It is unlawful to take any bird or mammal, except a nongame mammal, between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise of the following day at the place of taking, except as otherwise provided in this code or under such regulations as the commission may adopt. The commission may adopt regulations prohibiting the taking of any nongame mammal between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise of the following day at the place of taking Migratory game birds defined in § 3500 3500. Resident game birds are: Chinese spotted doves, ringed turtledoves of the family Columbidae, California quail and varieties thereof, Gambel or desert quail, mountain quail and varieties thereof, sooty or blue grouse and varieties thereof, ruffed grouse,sage hens and sage grouse, Hungarian partridges, red- legged partridges including the chukar and other varieties, ring-necked pheasants and varieties, and wild turkeys of the order Galliformes. Migratory game birds are: ducks and geese, coots and gallinules, jacksnipe, western mourning doves, white- winged doves and band-tailed pigeons. References in this code to "game birds" means both resident game birds and migratory game birds. License to take any bird or mammal, defined in § 3007 3007. Every person who takes any bird or mammal shall procure a license or permit therefor.

[Frank]

Also make sure they are actually "Crows" and not Ravens. Some of the non-lead areas have Ravens only and are protected (for some insane reason).

[ShooterJohn]

YOU MUST USE NON-LEAD IN THE CONDOR ZONE!!!According to this I found on Fish & Games site if it's in the Condor area it must be non lead.

The Fish and Game Commission in December 2007 adopted regulations (Section 353, Title 14, CCR) that will prohibit the use of projectiles (bullets) containing lead for hunting deer, bear, wild pig, elk, and pronghorn antelope in areas designated as California condor range. Additionally, the regulations (Section 475, Title 14, CCR) will also prohibit use of lead projectiles in the same areas when hunting coyote, ground squirrels, and other non-game wildlife. These regulations will be effective July 1, 2008.

Crows are considered non-game so you have to use non-lead in the condor zone.

§475. Methods of Take for Nongame Birds and Nongame Mammals.Nongame birds and nongame mammals may be taken in any manner except as follows:( f ) Methods of take within the California condor range. Except as otherwise provided, it is unlawful to use or possess projectiles containing more than one percent lead by weight while taking or attempting to take any nongame birds or nongame mammals in those areas described in Section 3004.5, Fish and Game Code.

[DirtyDave]

YOU CANT USE LEAD ON CROWS IN THE CONDOR ZONE, and dont shoot ravens while you're at it

[dabob]

Just hunt crows with lead between HWY 99 and I-5, there are no Condors between HWY 99 and I-5. :WTF_1:

[.22guy]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Looks like non-lead it is!Now my question, can we use steel loads or do they have to be some ridiculously priced tungsten Hevi-shot loads?I have a call in to the Fresno DFG office for some clarifications. Wonder if they will return my call?

[ShooterJohn]

Steel loads are fine as long as it is non-lead.

[clampdaddy]

I think they're just trying to confuse us so badly we wont know how to hunt anymore. Either way, if you have to shoot lead free try out those steel shot target loads made by winchester. Walmart usually has them in stock and they don't cost much more than lead loads. If you're in a good spot crow shooting is a high volume sport and that ammo is cheap enough that you wont go broke trying to fill your limit.

[.22guy]

I think they're just trying to confuse us so badly we wont know how to hunt anymore.

Ain't that the truth!

[BullsEye]

I made a map according to the DFG regs on google maps. Basically North East of this line you can't hunt crows in California. Then the lead and no lead zone map comes into play.Good luck!

[dabob]

http://www.dfg.ca.go...ervationAct.pdfWhere I-5 and Hwy 99 meet South of Bakersfield is the Southern point of the area YOU CAN use lead. Between I-5 and HWY 99 where they meet and all the way North between I-5 and HWY 99 is not Lead Free Condor Zone.

[.22guy]

Finally got a call back from the DFG a couple days ago. The guy said I could use lead. I asked "Even in the condor lead free zone?". He said yes and good luck with crow hunting.Take it for what it's worth.

[ShooterJohn]

I can believe it because by law you are required to retrieve crows and dispose of them properly. That would be different from say coyotes where you might leave them lay.But I would ask that person to give you that in writing because I have a feeling you could be stopped. And we all know after watching Wild Justice those wardens know everything.

[Braz]

After watching Wild Justice I dont' think anyone has anything to worry about using lead in the condor zone. After all, the only thing the wardens do is chase down drug suspects!