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Remington 700's in news


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#1 goosebrown

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:05 PM

You might want to watch this one. http://www.cnbc.com/...20243346&play=1I was pretty surprised. I think this is all gone with the new x-mark triggers since 2007, but not really thrilling to hear that Remington isn't even taking the problem seriously when it comes from police snipers who did their own video of guns going off whilst touching the bolt. I think it isn't a real case of evil that the problem is there, it requires some work for someone to get to that spot, but their not fixing it I think is a problem. Disclaimer I own two 700s and the next and all future bolt actions I get will be Savages. After the HELL I went through with a 700 SPS Varmint stock, I won't ever buy Remington again. And I called and told them so, not just a forum thing...
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#2 jawbreaker

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:17 PM

The model 600 has a recall on the trigger also, I sent 2 in to have a trigger change.

#3 OrneryOlMofo357

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:22 PM

B) For now, Im sticking with Tikka, Savage and Howa. True, the 700 is the Small Block Chevy of Rifles, but Its proven that the QC has gone down hill for a while now.
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#4 fyrewil

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:24 PM

700 is still being sold on the market, right next to the X-Mark's

#5 airgunny

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:34 PM

There's also a recall on the 597 .17hmr as well as remington .17hmr ammoon page 106 of American Rifleman Nov issue.I tell ya'. For what I'm reading about Savage rifles (My next bolt gun will be a .17hmr)there seems to be no question.Are gun makers becoming Toyota?
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#6 Brant

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:45 PM

I have 30 yr old 700 BDL Varmint and my son has a new camo SPS 2008. Is the 2008 iffy?

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#7 airgunny

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 05:50 PM

I have 30 yr old 700 BDL Varmint and my son has a new camo SPS 2008. Is the 2008 iffy?

How's this parallel Brant? I have an '88 toyota truck with 130k+ miles on it that'sNEVER broken down. I have an '09 corolla S with a lawsuit against Toyotafiled a year ago under the CA LEMON LAW.Don't even think about loading that rifle! Get it checked out!!! B)
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#8 Brant

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:35 PM

This is a rehash of an old news story... CBS did it in 2001. It is coming up now because Remington's safety mod program on the 700 ends Dec. 31, 2010 to get an extension. There is an estimate of roughly 20,000 rifles out of 5,000,000+ affected and many claim you can test it for the trick (unloaded).http://hunting.about...snewsrem700.htmUpdate: October, 2010The company offered a Safety Modification Program, which unless it receives another extension will expire on December 31, 2010. Basically, they will take your gun and, at your expense, remove the bolt lock mechanism to allow the bolt handle to be opened with the gun on safe. This applies to Remington models 700, 721, 722, XP-100, 600, 660, and 40-X bolt action rifles and pistols.What ever happened to always keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction and treat all guns as though they are loaded. Many millions of old guns of many different brands will go off if mishandled or dropped.

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#9 jawbreaker

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:47 PM

If you go on their website and search trigger recall you will find info on the triggers effected. there is a stamp or lack of a stamp on the trigger guard that indicates what trigger you have, I don't remember exactly because it's been a while. you only ave to pay for the weapon to be shipped to them, they will repair it and ship it back at their cost. My 600 has a vent rib and was missing some machine screws and they replaced those also for no charge.

#10 Brant

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 07:04 PM

Here is a review of the CNBC review published in Field and Stream. They smell a rat on the slant of the story.http://www.fieldands...del-700-trigger

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#11 Brant

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 07:38 PM

I just spoke to my friend who has been a gunsmith for about 45 years. He claims they knew of the Walker fire system issue decades ago. He said my 700 BDL Varmint has a different trigger system that can be adjusted much lower without a problem . His guess is 95% of the issues develop when folks monkey with the trigger adjustment. He confirmed with me how to test for it but said even that is not fool proof if you are unlucky enough to get one of the affected ones. He said over the years he replaced a lot of 700 triggers with good third party ones folks have wanted and we can always do that to fix it for sure. He mentioned a Timney or Jewel. The Timney is about $100. Any other gunsmiths on the forum familiar with this?

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#12 Yodel Dog

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:26 PM

I didn't bother to watch the program. I figured NBC, CNBC or MSNBC would not be either neutral or pro-gun when it comes to guns, I figure that they are anti-gun. I'm guessing that the gist of the program is that "Product Faulty", "People Killed", "Corporation Doesn't Care, is Evil, Got Rich".The 700 has been around for numerous decades now and thousands and thousands and thousands have been sold to consumers. One of the selling points of the 700 was the great trigger, readily adjustable by the owner. These great triggers also helped riflemen attain tight groups. Owners of rifles, and 700's in particular, typically don't take much care of their firearm. Yeah, they will swab the bore and wipe off their fingerprints and squirt oil here and there, but that's about the extent of the care. Go back 20 or 30 years and follow the evolution of vehicles. Prior to air conditioning, how many of us drove around with rifles hanging in the back window, dust roiling in and settling on everything. Today, it's quads of one type or another, and plenty of dust. Gun owners don't usually take their firearms to a gunsmith unless something is wrong, or they want custom work done. They don't take them in to have a safety inspection and check for wear and tear. Adjusting triggers usually involves weakening springs and decreasing sear engagements. The overtravel is usually reduced considerably. If you don't know what a 700 trigger assembly looks like, pull one up online. It's a nice, tight housing that is precision made to hold precision fitted parts. The part that tends to "fail" is the "Sear Safety Cam", it's purpose is to hold the "Firing Pin Head" to the rear thus preventing the gun from firing.Now we take this 700 that was sold years and years ago and follow it through history until today. The owner may have adjusted the trigger by weakening springs and minimizing engagements, the rifle was used during deer season for a couple of weeks, swabbed and put back in the gun cabinet. Year after year the scenario repeats itself, dust is accumulating in the precision trigger, oil is turning old and turning gummy. Springs are becoming weaker, those minimum sear engagements are wearing smoother and smoother, more oil is being squirted, more dust more drying in a continuing cycle. The same is happening to the newer rifles, but with the stainless steel and synthetic stocks, the cleaning becomes less important and rust becomes an enemy to the 700's precision trigger. Now, all the rust and dried oil and dust won't allow the "Sear Safety Cam" to move freely, instantly, as required and the gun can fired when the bolt is closed. With the trigger housing in this condition, things don't happen when they should, they happen when they shouldn't. So you want to shoot the rifle, scopes on target and you pull the trigger, nothing happens. You turn the rifle to look it because you can't believe what just happened, realize the safety is on, flick it off and the rifle goes off when you weren't even near the trigger. What has happened is the trigger was pulled when the safety was on, the dried oil did not allow the trigger to return to the full cock position. At this point, the safety is the only thing keeping the rifle cocked, when the safety is moved off, the rifle fires.Remington has made a couple of major changes over the years. At one time when the bolt was closed and the safety engaged, the bolt was locked closed. This prevented actions from opening unintentionally and creating a lot of noise for the hunter. Now the bolts will open when the safety is on to prevent accidental discharges. The new triggers are designed to help the owner get a better trigger pull, Savage is kicking their butt with the Accu-Trigger.The problem issues, are typically owner errors and the owners fault. If the gun is dirty, clean it. If you can't do it, it is still your responsibility. If the trigger is on the light side or questionable, get it checked and fixed, it's still your responsibility. If something was damaged when the gun went off, it's your responsibility and fault.If you want to clean the trigger assembly, use naphtha or cigarette lighter fluid. A few squirts will work as a solvent plus add a bit a lube. Work the trigger and cock and fire the assembly while the naphtha does it's job.

#13 goosebrown

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:15 AM

You know Yodel I don't think it is that simple. The video shows police snipers getting the gun to cook off and apparently so did the marines on their M24s.(?) They may not be as clean as they ought to be, but they are professional (usually)Anyway, you are right if you clean your weapon well and use common sense in pointing the muzzle down range you're always in good shape. This is more of a comment about Remington though and not the accidents. Being on top in the shooting world and not wanting to spend $.03 per rifle to fix a problem they knew about since 1948. You are talking about a change that would have cost them over the entire 5 million run of the rifle, about $1.3 million spread out from 1948 to 2007. About $21,000 a year. That is my point. For a modest sum, they could have saved lives and kept customers because each person around one of those deaths is going to become an anti-remington spokesman. Where else do you think they are scrimping? I know they would sell compressed cowpats as stocks if they could master the technology. All I want is for Remington to build more than a minimum $ compromise rifle. They CAN do that, some of their work is outstanding.Also re: the 2008 Remington, I think that they changed to the x-mark trigger in 2007 and so everything subsequent should not ever have the problem in the article.
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#14 ehd

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:06 AM

My 243 had the x-mark trigger ,which I didnt care for . the probem i had was to get a real light pull I didnt hold when closing the bolt. If you kept it in a reasonable pull amount, such as 3+ pounds ,it work o.k.. I wanted it real light for coyote work, so I bought a differant trigger. Brings up an interesting point of what is too light for an all purpose rifle?

#15 ratassassin

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:27 AM

For those who didn't see the show or look at the video, the problem is that a significant percentage of Remington 700's that used the "Walker" trigger from around 1946 to 2007 will fire when the rifle is cocked and the shooter moves the safety from "Safe" to "Fire" even if the shooter doesn't touch the trigger at all. The CNBC show had interviews and demonstrations from police snipers and Army snipers at Camp LeJeune showing the problem. This problem with M700's has apparently been well known for a long time. One guy interviewed at the sniper weapons school said that some of their Remington 700's self-fire like this without touching the trigger 2 out of every 20 rounds. What gets me is that Merle Walker himself, the designer of the Walker trigger who worked for Remington in the '40's and patented that trigger, said on nationwide TV that he identified the potential unsafe condition and designed a fix back in about 1948 that Remington decided not to incorporate for cost reasons. CNBC interviewed Walker, now in his 90's, for the show and that's what he said. Remington apparently incorporated that "fix" into the X-Mark Pro trigger which they came out with in 2008. Walker also said that after Remington decided not to incorporate his fix, while he worked for Remington he had a particular test procedure that he used on every Remington 700 to weed out the ones that would misfire. When he left, he says that Remington discontinued that inspection procedure. I've got a Remington 700 5R milspec .308 that I really enjoy shooting. It's a great rifle and shoots better than I do. Fortunately, it's got an X-Mark Pro trigger in which Remington incorporated Walker's "fix." But my friend has a 700 LTR .308 with the Walker trigger and he's had all kinds of problems with that rifle. The biggest problem is that the receiver was milled incorrectly so that it's 19 MOA off and he needs to use a 20 MOA rail to compensate just to get him to zero. (An experienced gunsmith confirmed this.) And he's never liked the trigger. While it hasn't misfired, it has been temperamental and the safety, once engaged, is very difficult to move to the fire position. There's no doubt that he's going to change the LTR's trigger out for a Timney when he gets the money, both for its crispness and adjustability as well as safety. And as his shooting partner, I'll feel safer when he does. If my 700 didn't have the X-Mark Pro, I would change it out in a heartbeat. I've got a 1.5 lb. Timney in my Howa 1500 varmint rifle and it's great. (Jewells are even nicer but twice the price.)Don't get me wrong. I generally distrust the press' liberal bent. But CNBC is a pretty pro-business channel, as you can tell from watching Larry Kudlow and crew. I don't think this show was anti-gun smear journalism. I think they just publicized a well documented and well known problem that needs to be addressed.

#16 Brant

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:32 AM

What trigger did you get?

[/i]me='ehd' date='Oct 23 2010, 10:06 AM' post='207989']My 243 had the x-mark trigger ,which I didnt care for . the probem i had was to get a real light pull I didnt hold when closing the bolt. If you kept it in a reasonable pull amount, such as 3+ pounds ,it work o.k.. I wanted it real light for coyote work, so I bought a differant trigger. Brings up an interesting point of what is too light for an all purpose rifle?


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#17 Yodel Dog

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 07:48 AM

My 243 had the x-mark trigger ,which I didnt care for . the probem i had was to get a real light pull I didnt hold when closing the bolt. If you kept it in a reasonable pull amount, such as 3+ pounds ,it work o.k.. I wanted it real light for coyote work, so I bought a differant trigger. Brings up an interesting point of what is too light for an all purpose rifle?

That's normal for a factory trigger, usually you can get a safe trigger pull in the 3-3 1/2lb range. To go lighter typically requires an aftermarket trigger...and added expense. All purpose rifle triggers? As long as it's safe and used regular, I don't think weight of pull is an issue, it's more of the owners familiarity.

#18 Yodel Dog

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 08:43 AM

Where else do you think they are scrimping? I know they would sell compressed cowpats...if they could master the technology.

They did. It was called the Model 710.

#19 Shoot-it

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 09:10 AM

My 700 is an older model and it will not let the bolt open with the safety on. I did a few things with the gun empty .Like press trigger with the safety on then open the safety and it did not engage so am I good to go?

#20 Yodel Dog

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 09:32 AM

I did a few things with the gun empty. Like press trigger with the safety on then open the safety and it did not engage so am I good to go?

By engage, do you mean fire? If it did not fire, then you were good, that time. It does not mean next time. With the older rifles, clean with a bit naphtha, and test now and then. And of course keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

#21 Brant

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

Once they admit guilt on anything or change it they will be sued out of existence. Our tort system is responsible for many accidental deaths because it is much less costly to deny and take the risks. I have a small airplane and the airplane manufacturers have learned this lesson well. I found out my son's 2008 700 has a different trigger system that supposedly is fine. My pre 1982 700 BDL 30-06 system could fail possibly although when I do the "Safety in the middle test" I can't get it to fail but I will drop a Timney trigger in it. My 80s 700 model BDL heavy barrel Varmint is also a different trigger system that has not had the problem.

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#22 Shoot-it

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 10:52 AM

Yes I mean fire.I bought it used and it looks like it was not fired much the locking lugs still have bluing on it. I wonder if the trigger has been changed since it seems to have a 3 pound crisp trigger or is all Remington 700 triggers like that.naphtha where do I get that at.I never heard of it.

#23 Yodel Dog

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 11:08 AM

If it is 3lbs crisp, it has been worked on. Naphtha is cigarette lighter fluid. Grocery or drug store should carry it.Posted Image

#24 Shoot-it

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 11:23 AM

When you said lighter fluid I was thinking BBQ fluid LOL.So napthe is better that Solvent or clp ? How about break cleaner it dries up real good.

#25 Yodel Dog

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 11:38 AM

Naphtha will act as a solvent and cut some crud, it will also act as a lube to prevent rust. Because of the tight tolerances, solvent will typically not evaporate enough and will still need lube. Now there is wet solvent and wet oil in your trigger group. CLP, typically is not used properly. Most users apply the solvent portion with the carriers and no lube. If used properly, the teflon will not give a consistent trigger pull.Brake cleaner will get just about all of the crud out, but can also cause some debris to "weld" itself to the gun parts. Brake cleaner will also remove all oils from the metal(leading to rust) and to replace it will require an excessive amount of oil to be placed into the trigger group.

#26 airgunny

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 01:44 PM

well thanks for that Yodel. I've always rinsed with brake cleaner and used CLP.That all makes sense.Looks like The 'ol safe needs a clean out day. :fuhrer:
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#27 ehd

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 04:12 PM

What trigger did you get?

timney with the saftey installed. And call timney to order it . As some sold in catalogs are not there best trigger. I bought one from cabelas and sent it back. the one from timney was steel bodied, not aluminum.

#28 ratassassin

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Posted 23 October 2010 - 06:35 PM

I bought mine directly from Timney as well. Another advantage of buying direct is you can ask them to set your trigger to a specific weight. I asked for 1.5 lb. and that's how it arrived. Very pleased with their service.

#29 fyrewil

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:10 PM

Just checked my 700's in the safe..... Had 1 of the 4 allow the firing pin to activate upon moving the safety. :huh: :D Called Remington and advised what I need to do to correct the proble to make the rifle as safe as possible, was transfered to voice mail..... left all my information on the message. Decided to follow up with email through the Remington web site.Recieved phone call less than 5 minutes from Remington, they want to send all back to the factory to be inspected and retro fix installed. Remington is sending out shipping lables to send back within 48 hours.I told Remington Rep I just want to make my 700's as safe as possible, no other motive.So I would say Remington is so far doing what is right for my issue.Updates to follow

#30 ratassassin

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:20 PM

Glad you checked and that Remington has offered to fix it. Find out what they're going to do specifically. Maybe they'll install an X-Mark Pro trigger. Regardless, you'll want to know what they do to your rifle.




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