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#1 Camoghost

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:39 AM

I see it comes with a 4 round mag but not sure if it's CA legal.. I would like to get one in the 338 Federal! http://www.dpmsinc.c...ucts/?prod=5293

#2 CA Desert Dog

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:26 AM

First, I will qualify who I am.. Check out the Wikipedia Page on this cartridgehttp://en.wikipedia....iki/6.5_GrendelI am Arne Brennan who owned Competition Shooting Sports and started the whole 6.5mm deal in the AR-15 so you can see my role and experience with this cartridge.The 6.5 Grendel (aka 6.5 PPCX, 6.5 CSS, 6.5 BPC) was created in 1998 to create a ballistic twin of the 308 Winchester in a smaller, lighter recoiling package to be used in NRA high power competition. The premise of this design was to equal or exceed to the ballistics of the 308 Winchester Match loadings in a AR-15 / M16 magazine loading.The 6.5 Grendel is based on the famed PPC which was created by Dr. Louis Palmisano and Ferris Pindell back in 1974. The 22 PPC and 6 PPC dominate the majority of 100-300 benchrest records worldwide. The PPC originated from the 220 Russian which itself is related to the 7.62x39. The 6.5 PPC was developed in 1984 by Dr. Palmisano and William B Davis, PHD for the US Shooting Team. For those not familiar, William B Davis ran Aberdeen Proving Grounds during the days when the M16 came through and is also credited with inventing VLD bullets.In its designed purpose, the 6.5 Grendel using a Lapua 108 Scenar bullet will fire a .480 BC bullet out of a 20 inch barrel M16 at 2650 fps and that compares to the 308 firing a 175 (.490 bc) at 2550 fps or a 168 grain (.460 bc) at 2650. In actual testing a 20 inch barrel A2 configuration AR-15 was able to use an Trijicon ACOG set for the 7.62 NATO to engage silhouette targets all the way to 800 meters. I will add that the 108 Lapua Scenar loading is what I used to achieve a 1.198" witnessed 5 shot group at 600 meters in a bolt gun. Please email for a photo of the target.I will also add that 6.5 Grendel also accomplished a secondary goal which is put a viable hunting round suitable for white tail deer or feral hogs into a rifle that was a tagged a "Varmint Rifle".One aspect of the cartridge design was based on flexibility to use a wide range of bullets ranging from 81 grain flat base bullets up to 144 grain FMJ bullets rather than be limited to a very small segment of bullets in the caliber chosen. Bullets from 81-108 grains have great flexibility of powder choice while still achieving respectable velocities. 120 - 144 grain bullets are very limited in powder options due to the powder volume of the case and velocity is moderate in those weights.The 6.8 SPC was a design to increase the terminal effects 0-300 meters and while it does fire a heavier bullet 110-115 grain, the BC of the bullet is less or equal to the 5.56 77 grain and the 6.8 case fires that heavier projectile at lower velocity. Therefore, while the 6.8 SPC does increase the bullet mass, it does not improve the range capabilities of the rifle. However, having had numerous discussions with the developers, their goal was 0-300 meter performance and the cartridge was very purpose built for that use within the restrictions of the M16 platform and the component selections they made. Like the 6.5 Grendel, the 6.8 SPC requires new barrels, bolts and magazines.Filling the mission of the average solider seeking 0-300 meter engagement, the 5.56 NATO already has seen an increase in performance through implementation of the M262 loading with a 77 grain OTM bullet which has been issued to forces in Iraq and Afghanistan for over 5 years. This ammunition modification requires no change in barrels, bolts or magazines and DOES improve over previous 5.56 loadings to a level that the benefits of cartridges like the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 G are minimized.As someone who created the whole 6.5 push in the AR-15, I will tell you my "at the ready", Surefire lit, Aimpoint sighted, lightweight AR-15 is chambered in 223 Remington. Why? because the 223 Remington is still an outstanding cartridge and loaded with the proper bullets, is very effective due to its low recoil, high velocity and lightweight. However, the 223 Remington is not an ideal round when asked to perform beyond 300 meters. For that matter, neither is the 7.62x39.Will the 6.5 perform 0-300 meters, YES, very effectively,,, but the real value of the 6.5 comes into play between 300-600 meters.Does this cartridge fit into a military role,,, it is an ideal option to fill a designated marksman capacity equipping a trained solider for precise engagement of targets out to 600 meters using the M16.As far as how the name came about, Alexander Arms LLC first cartridge release was called the 50 (.499 caliber) Beowulf and so the Grendel name comes from the same mythology. They also branded a 5.45x39 chambered AR style rifle, the "21 Genghis".Source(s):http://en.wikipedia....iki/6.5_Grendel
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#3 Camoghost

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 11:48 AM

LOL! I'm almost done with my Grendel... I was looking for a new gun that is factory build..

#4 Colin

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 02:59 PM

You call that a "qualification"?...Sheesh!That is very interesting. I feel like I am on with a celebrity!!!! Very cool Arne!!!!

#5 bwiese

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 02:36 PM

I see it comes with a 4 round mag but not sure if it's CA legal.. I would like to get one in the 338 Federal! http://www.dpmsinc.c...ucts/?prod=5293

This gun is most likelylisted/ banned by name on the "Kasler list" (11 CCR 5499) of formally-identifiedAR and AK 'series' members; the entry in the Kasler list bans "DPMS Panther (all)".If the rifle's receiver just said "DPMS LR338" on it, it'd be off-list.But most all new DPMS rifles however, have DPMS and either "Panther"/"Panther Arms") and anetched image of a panther head. So this is way way way too close for comfort; there are somedefenses available, but we start going into "Son-of-Harrott issues that are better left alone. I've talked with DPMS staff repeatedly at SHOT Show and they do not want to tweak their branding. So until some suits go thru it's gonna stay this way.Perhaps you can order the upper and use a Fulton or CMMG lower receiver; I believe they makeDPMS-compatible lowers, and they're truly "off-list".Bill WieseSan Jose CA

#6 rude robert

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:17 AM

Yikes, it is banned because of the etching
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#7 Yodel Dog

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:50 AM

Yikes, it is banned because of the etching

Your lawmakers at work.




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