94 replies to this topic

[Single Six]

First off, you should be shooting your rifle at 100 yards to determine the accuracy of the rifle. That way the sight picture is very clear and you can do a better job. An inch at a hundred yards is a good grouping, which translates to 2" at 200 yards. Go back and double check all the screws on the gun and scope. If any are loose, apply loctite and tighten up. Shoot 5 shots, slowly, so the barrel doesn't heat up. Heat will throw the bullets in very stange ways. Remember, when you are hunting, you are shooting from a cold barrel, and rarely shooting more then 2, maybe 3 rounds. So take your time and try again. Let us know how it goes. And yea, get a trigger job ifyou can. Otherwise,that rifle should do a good job for you.

I've been shooting 1-2" @ 100, probably closer to 2".I have a local indoor range that goes to 25 yds. Any point in trying that? I can go shoot there after work, the outdoor range I can pretty much only go Sat am early if I'm not doing something else. Imagine a 25 yd group ought be about one hole eh?

[Braz]

If you are just working up loads, or trying to sight in a rifle with a new sight, then a bag in front and one in the back is good. One the rifle in sighted in however, you should be shooting like fakawee suggested, which are really the positions you will be using in the field. That is a totally different idea. Sighting in requires very steady holds, hence the bags. While that would be nice in a hunting situation, not many of us carry around a bench and sandbags when hunting, thereby the necessity of shooting in "hunting" positions.

[Single Six]

Your shotgun patterns pretty nice.

Yes, it's not too bad. about 18-24" @ 50yd.

[Single Six]

If you are just working up loads, or trying to sight in a rifle with a new sight, then a bag in front and one in the back is good. One the rifle in sighted in however, you should be shooting like fakawee suggested, which are really the positions you will be using in the field. That is a totally different idea. Sighting in requires very steady holds, hence the bags. While that would be nice in a hunting situation, not many of us carry around a bench and sandbags when hunting, thereby the necessity of shooting in "hunting" positions.

Understood. That's why I haven't messed with other positions save a little prone the other day as I figured it would be the most accurate - and it was, heck, better than my bench shooting.... It's a heck of a lot less comfortable than I expected...Something just dawned on me, I feel kinda dumb for not thinking of earlier. When I go shooting, instead of shooting one gun at a time, I oughta shoot each a little at a time and give them time to cool in between. Or at least the rifles.

[Braz]

10-4, that's the way to do it. When working up loads, or sighting in a rifle, no more than one round a minute. If the barrel starts to get to warm, set it aside and let it cool. That's why it's always good to take a 22 rifle and/or pistol with you. Gives you a kick the the backside while waiting for the cooling to kick in.

[Shoot-it]

Sorry I didn't make it clear.I was talking about your pie size group.I thought you were being funny by posting it.I see now you were serous .Those sp your using are not working to good change to a different brand bullet etc.When I use to shoot factory before I reloaded I had to find a brand that my rifle liked .Once you start reloading and see how accurate you start shooting you will not go back!

[Single Six]

The barrel gets hot just sitting on the bench. It's hot here...I keep the 4runner running with the AC blasting, the back hatch open overhanging the bench as much as possible and set the rifle in the back of it to cool. 25yds indoor????

[Braz]

Just go out real early in the morning. That should take care of the problem.

[Single Six]

Sorry I didn't make it clear.I was talking about your pie size group.I thought you were being funny by posting it.I see now you were serous .Those sp your using are not working to good change to a different brand bullet etc.When I use to shoot factory before I reloaded I had to find a brand that my rifle liked .Once you start reloading and see how accurate you start shooting you will not go back!

Thanks. The pie group was kinda rapid fire FMJ. I wasn't serious about it being a good group. The smaller group was the GDSP. I'm not going to discount any ammo yet til I make sure it's not my shooting. I also have some Rem stuff, the GDSP was given to me. I'll probably be reloading sooner than I planned. I can't afford to shoot otherwise. Well, actually .223 is pretty affordable as long as that cheap stuff shoots OK which it seems to @ 100. About $.15 per round. Any recommendations on a good entry level starter kit? I glanced at some RCBS kits in a Brownells catalog I got. Thanks

[45Colt]

Thanks. The pie group was kinda rapid fire FMJ. I wasn't serious about it being a good group. The smaller group was the GDSP. I'm not going to discount any ammo yet til I make sure it's not my shooting. I also have some Rem stuff, the GDSP was given to me. I'll probably be reloading sooner than I planned. I can't afford to shoot otherwise. Well, actually .223 is pretty affordable as long as that cheap stuff shoots OK which it seems to @ 100. About $.15 per round. Any recommendations on a good entry level starter kit? I glanced at some RCBS kits in a Brownells catalog I got. Thanks

Take a swing over at the "Reloading Forum".All sorts to read.Then, there's the "Which reloader to buy ?" Or something like that.Sure can get a lot of answers.I think CH had a question post some months back.Divernhunter,Clampdaddy,and several other members (me too) reloads.They'll give ya plenty of advice and suggestions.But first,if you plan to get into reloading,please by all means buy a Lyman (#48-#49 ??),Hornady,Speer,(I have Speer #13)[might have 14 out by now].The first few pages gives you the basics of what to look for,how to tell if a case is stretching.pressure signs,etc. And how to adjust the dies properly.About3-4 books should get you started.Then IF you get serious about reloading,a chronograph can be a big help in load development.I would say,buy for your most common shot calibers.Few find reloading too tedeous/time consuminig,then they quit.But mostly,it's quite relaxing to assemble ammo.Just try to avoid getting sidetract.To really get a case tumbler cheap,try a rock polisher from Harbor Freight.Bought some polishing media from Ronning Arms/Sierra Sports walnut media. Course you can find nearly the same stuff from pet stores.And go from there.The equipment can be priced quite widely.RCBS,Lee Precision,Dillon Precision,and others.Whatever you'll buy,will be up to you.Some items can be made by yourself.Learn little tricks and hints here and there.Sometimes, you can find household items to be modified for reloading.Such as a fold-up plastic cutting board Mine is a loading block for the 45-70 cases.My folding loading block holds some 80 cases.Yeah, git on over thar. Once it grabs ya, there's no turning back.

[fakawee]

Just go out real early in the morning. That should take care of the problem.

That's what I thought he was doing Lynn! Whenever I get the itch to shoot my big guns, I leave San Diego at 0300hrs so I'm down there before the sun comes up. It's still in the lower 80's at 0600hrs but there is no wind (usually) and no one to interupt my long shots (1000+yds). Another thing-there's nothing like the crack of an Armalite .416 or Barrett .338 Lapua Mag to wake up the Border Patrol guys! Most of them come and visit before I can get in a 10th shot.

[Single Six]

I do go early. But I don't like it and there still isn't enough time, and can't go often as I'd like, only once a week. There for a while it wasn't even cooling off at night. nice now.

[Single Six]

I'm frustrated with all the parallax this cheap bushnell has and no one has anything good to say about them. A rifle that's accurate to at least 300 is a waste with a scope that's only good for 150. Recommendations for a good entry level parallax adjustable scope?Related side story : there was a professional (LEO) shooter at the range the other day ringing the 300 yd gongs with open sights with an AR15...standing. Now granted, he's obviously light years ahead of me in skill, but I'd expect my rifle could keep up with his off a bench at least...except the scope is all over the place and throws me off.

[rdsii64]

As you can tell by how many replies you have gotten, there is more than one way to skin a dog. (pun intended). The one thing you should take away from all these responces is the need to practice. Find a load your rifle likes, then get out and shoot. get out to some open country and see exactly what you rifle and load does at the distances you ented to shoot, record the data and shoot some more. I could tell you what my rifle is zeroed at and why but that would only add to the many allready mentioned. If you don't remember anything else, don't practice until you get it right, PRACTICE UNTIL YOU CAN'T GET IT WRONG.

[Single Six]

I don't need to be told to practice. I'm not an antsy 15 year old, I already understand that.As stated, I'm OK at 100 and 150, and things fall apart at 200, I have quite a bit of prallax at that range. As was stated, cheap scopes are often parallax free at 100 or 150. There's no point in practicing at 200 if the equipment isn't reliable. If I don't KNOW the gun/scope, etc. is accurate, how do I know if I'm getting any better?

[BullsEye]

I don't think parallax is the issue. Just practice at 100 yards till you can cover your groups with a quarter. If you can't then try to figure out why? Is it ammo? Your form? Trigger pull? Is your scope loose? Have you cleaned your gun? Keep things as consistent as you can to eliminate all variables and only adjust one thing at a time. That way you can compare apples to apples. http://en.wikipedia...._archery_sightsParallax compensation for firearm and archery sightsMain article: Telescopic sight#Parallax compensationWhen a telescope sight is fitted to small arms, the distance between the sighting mechanism and the weapon's bore can introduce significant errors when firing at close range, particularly when firing at small targets. This also applies to archery where the shooter frequently relies on a single pin at close range.Most telescopic sights lack parallax compensation because they can perform very acceptably without refinement for parralax. Telescopic sights manufacturers adjust these scopes at a distance that best suits their intended usage. Typical standard factory parallax adjustment distances for hunting telescopic sights are 100 yd or 100 m to make them suited for hunting shots that rarely exceed 300 yd/m. Some target and military style telescopic sights without parallax compensation may be adjusted to be parallax free at ranges up to 300 yd/m to make them better suited for aiming at longer ranges.[22] Scopes for rimfires, shotguns, and muzzleloaders will have shorter parallax settings, commonly 50 yd/m[23] for rimfire scopes and 100 yd/m[24] for shotguns and muzzleloaders. Scopes for airguns are very often found with adjustable parallax, usually in the form of an adjustable objective, or AO. These may adjust down as far as 3 yards (2.74 m).[25]

[tony]

im not an expert but the tighter your group gets at 100 yrds the better your shooting at 200 plus yards. i was told there is no point in trying to shoot 200 yards if you cant group tight (.75 or less) at 100yards.

[rdsii64]

I don't need to be told to practice. I'm not an antsy 15 year old, I already understand that.As stated, I'm OK at 100 and 150, and things fall apart at 200, I have quite a bit of prallax at that range. As was stated, cheap scopes are often parallax free at 100 or 150. There's no point in practicing at 200 if the equipment isn't reliable. If I don't KNOW the gun is accurate, how do I know if I'm getting any better?

Slow down, There was no ill intentions. Lets start by defining what you mean by alright at 150 and falling apart at 200. In the mean time a good .223 should be able to shoot decent groups at insane ranges. There are many things that could be causing your point of impact not to match your point of aim at 200 yards. breath control, trigger control, and natural point of aim to name a few. if your equipment is doing fine at 150 yards there is no reason it should not function at 200 yards. The only way you are going to figure out the problem is slowly isolating every facet of your work flow thoough out the shooting process. This is assuming the rifle is functioning properly. That was whay I said practice untill you can't get it wrong. if you suspect a problem with your equipment, have it checked out and repaired if needed. If you think your optics are simply not up to the task, put difference optics on the rifle.

[Shoot-it]

First off what is your best group at 100 yards off a bench?What happens at 200 yards how much does it open up.the only time I had a problem with parallex was I was in a hurry to test my reloads and it was very hot outside and it was a leupold scope.it was just me not the equipment that day.I had a bushnel sportsveiw on my 270 for many years never had a problem with it.Killed some deer and a few coyotes with it.

[Single Six]

First off what is your best group at 100 yards off a bench?What happens at 200 yards how much does it open up.

one inch probably average 1.5". 150yd groups very little bigger, which doesn't make sense. if the 150 yd group is only a smidge bigger than the 200 yd group, why such a big diff only 50yds more? My only explanation is parallax. I may set up 2 or 3 targets in a row and shoot thru all three at once and see what it looks like. 200 yds 6 inches +- I can see the parallax at 200. squish cheek up n' down, crosshairs move up 'n down on target what looks to be a couple inches. combine that with me being a noob and we have shotgun groups. my brother is a more experienceded shooter than i and will be shooting it this weekend. we'll see. some of my friends are very experienceded shooters and will be shooting it. we'll see.

If you think your optics are simply not up to the task, put difference optics on the rifle.

That's what I think. I'm looking for suggestions for optics. Let me also give a little background on myself. I'm mechanically minded, I get it from both sides of the family. I run a large machine and welding shop where we fix or make everything from geothermal eqpt to trucks and tractors to sewer plants to drivelines. My main hobby for years has been 4x4s, offroad, etc. I'm used to being careful and methodical in solving a problem. I'm newish to shooting but I've also read a ton on the subject.Yes the rifle is clean when I shoot, etc. basics are covered. Only thing that could be an issue is sometimes I don't take my time when shooting, but I pay attention and know it and don't count those groups for much more than practice. In the summer when it was 100* plus with a black rifle in the sun it was very hard to keep the rifle cool. it's cooler now, we'll see. Thanks all

[Single Six]

Question : if .75" or 1" is good at 100, what's good at 200 or 300? 2" or 3"? That or a little more is what I would expect, but when I start getting out to those ranges, the group sizes get larger disproportionately to the yardage. Even if I'm shooting 2" groups @ 100, theoretically, they should only be 4" or maybe 5" at 200....no?

In the mean time a good .223 should be able to shoot decent groups at insane ranges.

I'm shooting a new Savage Edge with the cheap scope package. (Should have bought one with the accutrigger and no scope and added a good scope) It has been advertised, tested, and shot by several people that I've read about (including me every once in a while) to shoot 1" or better @ 100. I think it's just underscoped. It seems a waste to me to have a 3-500 yard rifle with a 150 or *maybe* 200 yard scope.

[Shoot-it]

are you using some good ammo not that fmj junk ?

[Single Six]

Buckets, it's late, I gotta get home and to bed. Been out at the shop all night wrenchin' on my budddy's jeep.

[Single Six]

are you using some good ammo not that fmj junk ?

Speer gold dot SP (LEO stuff), remington, and the FMJ...but I've shot 1" groups @100 with the FMJ. The Rem seems least accurate. This is my best 200. 4", Speer. The rest are like 6".

[Shoot-it]

COme by and help change my Slave clutch in mine I have to take out the trans it's a 92 yj. :lol:That's not bad did you aim for each box?

[Single Six]

COme by and help change my Slave clutch in mine I have to take out the trans it's a 92 yj. :lol:That's not bad did you aim for each box?

Was aiming for the 4" square in the middle. This was also my first time shooting prone, I think that had something to do with the low and right.

[Single Six]

Random quotes gathered from googling - in short, accurate to 100, but the scope is poop! I'm going to muss with the trigger a bit too.

My father in law just bought an edge in .243. Its a tackshooter of a 300 dollar gun. We mounted a redfield 4-12X40mm revolution in leupold rifleman rings and bases to it and had it shooting 1.5"-2.5" (me-him) @ 200 within 10 rounds of the first box of remington 100 gr corelokt. I wouldnt hesitate to buy one...

The Savage Edge is very accurate for a starter Rifle, some of the other forms guys that own them all say the same thing, very accurate, but they have the same problem as there predecessor the Savage Stevens 200, some have stiff trigger pull. I would do a little more looking before paying $300.00 for one, in my area you can buy a new Edge in the Black stock with out a scope for $259.99.I would stay away from the package deals; most times it will be the cheapest scope available at the time.

The Gun Nuts on the Outdoor Chanel did a review on the Savage Edge last night. They stated that the gun shoots well if you feed it the ammo it likes. They fired two three shot groups, and both were at 1 inch, or less, at 100 yds. It was stated that if you don't feed it what it likes, it will shoot all over the target.

I purchased a Savage Edge XP in .223 as a summer shooting rifle and to see how well I could get it to perform without putting another dime into the rifle. If there is any weak points to the Savage Edge XP, it is the trigger and the scope. the trigger and sear surfaces are crudely polished, more like done on a grinder. My .223 came with a factory trigger pull of 5 3/4 pounds. A bit too heavy for me, since I basically bench rest shoot. Some careful polishing of the trigger and sear brought them down considerably. Trimming the spring brought the trigger pull down to about 3/4 of a pound with good sear engagement. Nice, but a bit too light, especially for varmint hunting. The spring is a two stage affair with a tightly wound section that goes into a hole in the trigger. I took a piece of .010 steel strip and cut an octogon about 5/16" in diameter and drilled a 7/64" hole in the center. Threading it on the spring gave me an aduster that, by winding it onto the smaller section of the spring, gave me an range of adjustment from about 1 pound to about 3 1/4 pounds, good for bench rest shooting to varmint hunting. The rifle performs quite well. I have shot some good 1/2 MOA groups with my best group being .41". That's with a 52 grain FMBT spitzer being driven by 24.8 grains of Varget in scrounged Lake City Brass and a CCI primer. Oh, the really cheap bushnell sharpshooter?!? scope was replaced with a 6 x 24 X 44 Truglo Target/Varmint scope.Any one have good loads for the Savage Edge XP in 223?

But most importantly the damn thing will shoot!!!! 3 shot groups of .8" @100 meters with off the shelf PPU serbian ammo with only a bipod shooting prone. I will let you all know more once I have worked up a few good loads and spend some seat time at the range.

[tonyd]

Been workin at 100 and messed around a little at 200 at the range. 200 is hard to see with the 9x scope that came on my Savage Edge. I will probably stay inside 200 yds, bein' a noob and all...sound right?

Been thinking about the Savage Edge XP 270, I know its not the Accu trigger, how do you like the one that came with it. TonyD

[CA Desert Dog]

[Single Six]

Been thinking about the Savage Edge XP 270, I know its not the Accu trigger, how do you like the one that came with it. TonyD

If you're handy or know a smith, get it. It's pretty heavy, pushing 6 lbs. If not, get the Accu....and get it without the cheap scope.