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#1 BC9696

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:35 AM

It has occured to me that my dismally unsuccessful hunts could be the product of bad calling. Too much calling, too many different sounds, too loud, etc. What am I doing wrong? Here's my typical stand:1. Set up and wait 5 minutes before starting...look around carefully for movement.2. Lone howl to see if I can get a response.3. Wait a few minutes and try howl again.4. If I get a reply I try the pup distress, if not then I go to a prey animal distress (rabbit, kitten, prairie dogs, etc.5. Last shot is a yote pack call. After 20 minutes or so I pack up if nothing shows.See any common mistakes?

#2 ShooterJohn

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 07:57 AM

Whatever happened to just using a rabbit distress call? Get away from the howling until you get something and some real time howling experience. By that I mean real field time and listening to coyote howling. And not the howls most new hunters hear either, the I know your not a coyote howl. Don't alert the neighborhood by warning them with a howl that may sound nothing like it should. All dying or scared rabbits sound different but howls are pretty specific.

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#3 Braz

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:06 AM

I agree John, I think the distress sound, by itself, is the way to go. Give it about a 15-20 second blast, and sit quiet for several minutes. Do it again, and sit again. Give it try Bruce and see what happens. Like I said, you can come up here, I'll bunk you at my cabin and we'll get Red Dog and Rabbiddog to come up and get you a dog. Think about it.
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#4 tawnoper

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:16 AM

What am I doing wrong? Here's my typical stand:1. Set up and wait 5 minutes before starting...look around carefully for movement. Sit in a place you can see. Up a little higher is good. Can't shoot what you can't see. If it's flat, sit on a dove stool. Soon as you are ready start calling...no need to wait 5 min...waste of time.2. Lone howl to see if I can get a response. Can the howl for now. Keep it simple. Start hunting from minute one...not looking to see if there is one around. As soon as you are ready, turn on a good distress sound like JS cottontail and let it play.3. Wait a few minutes and try howl again. Waste of time...stick with #2 till about the 12 min mark then start head'n for stand 2.4. If I get a reply I try the pup distress, if not then I go to a prey animal distress (rabbit, kitten, prairie dogs, etc. See #35. Last shot is a yote pack call. After 20 minutes or so I pack up if nothing shows. By 20 minutes you should be settling in to your 2nd stand or close to it.See any common mistakes?Usually...there is no such thing as bad calling. Some people put too much emphasis on sounds and sound combos...true everyone has a favorite sound or call...I have my own as well...but the main thing is to use that sound, not a mixed combination of things. I laugh every time I read someone saying they are trying to create a scenerio for the coyote. I think if you keep it simple you'll do better. The most important thing is location. Most everywhere has coyotes around and you can call one just about anywhere...but certain locations hold more then others. Just use common sense...walk quietly to stands, try to stay low i.e. don't skyline yourself. On a sunny day try keeping the sun at your back...makes it easier to spot incoming critters. If using a e-caller quietly place it just out in front of you. Don't march all around the place...things like that. Keep it simple


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#5 Old timer

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:33 AM

Bruce my collection of calls are Jack Rabbit,cottontail and mouse,Start with either rabbit and use the mouse to coax them in. and that has taken many coyotes and bobcats..... :two-cents:
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#6 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:35 AM

Agreed....LOSE THE HOWLS!!!!Try this, 1. Find a good location with some good sign.2. Sit with the wind in your face, sun to your back and in some cover.3. Use rabbit distress calls.4. Shoot the coyote that comes into your stand. Do that, and you should be OK. LOL!!!!Seriously, I have messed with howling for close to 2 years now and have yet to call one in. I've worked my way up to actually getting them to answer me in daylight and I consider that progress. Yup, I would lose the howls and just go out and call, you are making too difficult.

#7 Rich Cronk

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 08:59 AM

It has occured to me that my dismally unsuccessful hunts could be the product of bad calling. Too much calling, too many different sounds, too loud, etc. What am I doing wrong? Here's my typical stand:1. Set up and wait 5 minutes before starting...look around carefully for movement.2. Lone howl to see if I can get a response.3. Wait a few minutes and try howl again.4. If I get a reply I try the pup distress, if not then I go to a prey animal distress (rabbit, kitten, prairie dogs, etc.5. Last shot is a yote pack call. After 20 minutes or so I pack up if nothing shows.See any common mistakes?

BC,When using the howling for coyotes method, I do not wait for a vocal reply. Coyotes often come in silent. I don't wait five minutes before howling either.

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#8 .22guy

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 09:28 AM

My unprofessional opinion is to start calling right away. Waiting five minutes gives your scent time to disperse via the wind, and gives them a bigger area to wind and bust you.Skip all the howling, just use a rabbit distress sound, or possibly a bird in distress sound. Start at relatively low volume and work your way up.What kind of call are you using? I'm assuming some kind of e-caller? If you are doing all those sounds, you might be getting busted from all the movement fiddling with the remote.

#9 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 10:47 AM

Depending on how quickly/quietly I can get to the stand determines when I start the call. If I get there without a bunch of squirrels or birds yelling at me, I will start right away. If I flush birds or have to cover some open ground, I will usually let it cool down for awhile before I start calling. I think the key for BC9696, is to keep his calling simple and giving up the howls...at least for now.

#10 dabob

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 11:04 AM

If you use a electronic call forget about 1., 2., 3. & 5. Then make number 4. into number 1. and modify it.1. start out with distress sounds, rabbit, birds, rats, voles etc for 12 to 15 minutes. Then switch to pup distress for 3 to 5 minutes. Don't be afraid to run the caller on full volume some of the time no matter what distress sound you are playing. Keep the caller going the whole time. After calling for at least 15 to 20 minutes go do it again some where else. During Dec, Jan & Feb do some howling for a few minutes at the end of your stands.
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#11 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 11:20 AM

dabob, Do you have much experience with howling? If so, maybe a quick tutorial could help some of us out.

#12 mtn dog

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:00 PM

:popcorn:Great topic.
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#13 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:44 PM

Here is what I have tried...IT HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL, SO ITS JUST FOR REFERENCE.After locating a good calling spot, I might try either a female invitation howl or coyote locator howl. Once the sun is up, neither of these has produced an answer more than just a couple of times. If the sun is all the way down, I can almost always get a response. Sometimes, I've tried rabbit distress, then sit quiet for a while. Then try the pup distress. Even around active dens and using several different calls to make the pup distress sound, I have never called one in. I've even tried using the challenge bark at coyotes that hang up and wont come to the prey distress call. It will keep them in the area for awhile, but they wont come closer. Same scenario using female invitation, coyote serenade or coyote locator howl. I've tried several different scenarios with several different calls (both hand calls and e-calls). I have all but given up on howling because the prey distress sounds produce so often for me. Just last week, I used my buddies power dog set on jackrabbit distress and called almost constantly for about 45 minutes on one stand. Just before last shooting light, I used the female invitation and had one answer not 200 yards away. I couldn't see it through brush and tall grass. I went back to the jack in distress and stayed beyond last shooting light and it never showed up. Wind was right, stand was very good....

#14 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 12:48 PM

Just remembered something I heard on a howling video. Per this guy, the coyote coming to a howl, generally, comes in much slower than one coming into a prey call. Most of the time, they come in quiet...they might answer once or twice, but he says once they stop answering, get ready, because they are coming in. I've never seen that, but he had several scenes on the video that showed that exact scenario.

#15 Camoghost

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 01:55 PM

I have never used howls to take a coyote! I have tried them but I have never had success with them.. Now I now some guys do but a good old dying rabbit always works for me..

#16 Braz

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:02 PM

Frank will be along sooner or later to tell you about the virtues of using the howl. :two-cents:
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#17 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:09 PM

Looking forward to it....I would love to have the howl in my arsenal!!!!

#18 tawnoper

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:25 PM

I wouldn't under estimate using coyote howls all together because they can be effective at certain times as Dabob pointed out. I only really use them during late season...and even then only sometimes. But I've had them work when distress wasn't cutting it. The action usually isn't as hot and heavy though.But back to BC's original question: I think most guys getting started should really stay with the KISS method. Actually, most guys who have been doing this awhile with success...and have tried different things thru the years usually go full circle and go back to the KISS method...I know I did. Alot of the gadgetry now available is just that...unnecessary gadgets. When I first started we used a call and a rifle or shotgun...and called in a lot of stuff. Keep it simple. With the new remote ecallers it's even easier. Pick a place you can see, then put your caller out in front of you a little ways and go get comfy. Turn on caller to a nice distress sound and don't fart around with it much (maybe volume a bit). 90% of the critters I've called were called in using that extremely complicated recipe (except I was using hand call for most). If something doesn't show in 10-15 minutes move a mile or so and repeat. If you get 6-7 dry stands move to new location and try again...easy.
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#19 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:35 PM

I'd always heard late season was the time for howling. I had one place with active coyote dens and hit the howling quite a bit. I know I am missing something...I'm just looking to find it.

#20 tawnoper

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:44 PM

I had one place with active coyote dens and hit the howling quite a bit.

To me active coyote dens is not late season...it's off season. But howling and pup distress around active dens can get you some action.
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#21 Possumal

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 02:56 PM

I don't hunt coyotes at this time of year unless I get a call from a farmer who has problems. If I was calling now, I wouldn't hesitate to use coyote vocals, especially pup distress. Around this neck of the woods, the coyotes are very territorial when protecting the pups of the year. If you are using an ecaller, good howls and pup distress sounds are readily available. If you are using hand/mouth calls, get some practice in with a good custom open reed call and you are good to make all the vocals you need. I prefer the Cronk Killer call for an all around call for this purpose.
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#22 dabob

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:16 PM

dabob, Do you have much experience with howling? If so, maybe a quick tutorial could help some of us out.

The only howling I have done has been with my Foxpro callers the last three seasons. Before I got my FX5 I used cassette callers for 22 years. Early in the season I think howling will scare off way more coyotes than it will call in. During mateing season the chances of calling in coyotes with coyote vocals are much better.I am really impressed with the results I have had with pup distress sounds and they work any time of the year.With my Burnham Brothers and Johnny Stewart cassette callers we used one rabbit distress sound and played it full blast for 10 to 15 minutes and then moved to another stand. We killed lots of coyotes with one sound.The first cassette copy we had was called Half Grown Jack. It got much louder after about 5 minutes of playing time and quite often the coyotes came into the caller 2 to 5 minutes after the tape got louder. So we started using more volume and ended up playing the sound on full volume all the time and it worked good. We hunt in open country most of the time so this full volume my not work in some areas.
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#23 Colin

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 03:59 PM

I wasn't suggesting that hunting the active dens was during late season...it did sound like that though. And yes, this was at a farmers request...I usually don't hunt them while the pups are in the den. Dabob, Thanks, that is good info.

#24 Thumper Dunker

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 05:17 PM

I do not howl unless I see them or here them first. Its too easy to sound bigger than the coyote your after . No coyote is going to come in just to get wooped buy a bigger one. A good chalenge howl will scare most off. IMO. Need to sound wimpy and week. Can't beat the good old rabbit.
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#25 Rich Cronk

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:49 AM

I do not howl unless I see them or here them first. Its too easy to sound bigger than the coyote your after . No coyote is going to come in just to get wooped buy a bigger one. A good chalenge howl will scare most off. IMO. Need to sound wimpy and week. Can't beat the good old rabbit.

Howling for coyotes is an art in itself. It is the most misunderstood calling method there is, but is very effective when used correctly. The spring and summer months are a very good time to use the howling method. Mating season during late winter is also a good time for howling.

#26 ShooterJohn

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:27 AM

I agree with Rich, but for new guys who have never called in a coyote at all it's probably a skill left to more experienced callers.

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#27 Rich Cronk

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 04:50 PM

I agree with Rich, but for new guys who have never called in a coyote at all it's probably a skill left to more experienced callers.

Well said John. A caller needs to gain some confidence with the old tried and true prey distress screams first.

#28 Old timer

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:26 PM

Right on, without confidence you may never see one except by mistake :rolleyes:
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#29 Thumper Dunker

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:55 PM

You guys are right on I can remember going out and thinking this is not going to work and they were probably coming in but i was not realy trying to see them. You need fath in yourself and your calls , and all your equipment.
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#30 CA Desert Dog

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 07:40 PM

Howling is a tricky business. All of the above info is good so think of it this way. You've heard the old adage, "The less said, the better"...well, howling has to be done correctly because it is truly a language with specific inflections. If you just let out howls, you may as well be speaking German while attempting to sweet talk a French girl. Even worse, you may be inadvertently challenging a dog that is not an Alpha and he or she may not be up for a confrontation. If you are not 100% sure of the appropriate timing, inflection, and language, forget the howling. You may be doing more harm than good.Predators have incredible hearing. Your distress call can be heard for great distances. After I hunker down, I usually wet the back of one hand and do a series of lip squeaks off my hand. I do that every 30-seconds for about 5-minutes. I have called in more than a few, just lip squeaking. Next, I go to a predator call and call in soft moaning tones...simulating near death suffering. Then I wait for a few minutes and keep my eyes peeled. After about 5 or seven minutes, I get on the distress call with medium volume for about 30-seconds and stop. If they are nearby, they will come.I think many guys call in animals they never see. Then they start calling loudly and either scare the predator away or give themselves away to the predator. Also, stay as still as possible while calling. Use a calling technique that does not involve a lot of hand or arm motion. Remember the military basics of tactical movement....vertical movement is more difficult to spot than lateral movement. :fireworks3: and worth every penny :good:
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