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Time for a new Hunting Bow?


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#1 BC9696

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 03:29 PM

My Bear Extreme is kinda slow (250FPS) and loud even after adding 4 Limbsavers. Thinking it may be time to upgrade to something faster, quieter and lighter. They want $140.00 to replace the cables on my old bow...what is the hot mfr these days? I have a 31" draw, 70lb compound now. Also, can someone explain how the brace height effects accuracy? What is top end (speed-wise) for a hunting bow? 300FPS? Alittle more?

#2 jawbreaker

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 03:50 PM

Bruce all of the name brand bows are competetive in quality with one another. You need to shoot a few and find the one that is right for you. Brace height doesn't directly effect accuracy but a short brace height is less forgiving on your form and therefore less accurate. I am going to go to Utah on the 19th to be at the grand opening of my best friends archery shop and will be buying myself a new bow there but if you want to come to the north county I will take you to the shop here, I know the owner very well and we can find a bow that works for you(he will let you shoot them all if that's what it takes)

#3 BC9696

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 03:59 PM

Sounds good. I am amazed at the price spread for bows with comparable stats. The Bear "Lights Out" CB at $400. compares well to the Hoyt Carbon Matrix CB in stats but the Hoyt is $1700. That sound you hear is my jaw hitting the floor. According to this article, brace height does affect accuracy but what is brace height?Compound Bow Buyer's Guide written by Tracy Breen With so many different types of bows on the market today, choosing the "right" one can be a difficult undertaking. This compound bow buyer's guide will help you wade through the options and simplify the process of buying a new bow. Consider buying a ready-to-shoot bow package like this one from RedHead. Packages that include a sight, rest and quiver are less expensive than buying each item individually. Compound bow manufacturer's make significant technological strides every year, and a bow that was viewed as top-of-the-line only a few years ago is most likely viewed as a dinosaur today. Modern bows are lighter, faster and quieter than anyone would have thought possible only 5 years ago, and engineers at bow companies continue to push the engineering envelope each year with two goals in mind: producing bows that blow the socks off last years models and "wowing" bow buyers. As a result, consumers end up with amazing bows that increase accuracy. And as most experienced bowhunters will tell you, setting up a bow used to be an all-day project. Today's bows can be set up and throwing darts that are fast, accurate and deadly within a few short hours.The first thing to consider with new bows is accuracy. Most mid-priced bows have as many bells and whistles as their high-end cousins; they just cost less. In today's highly competitive bow market, poorly made bows don't survive. As you head to your favorite archery retailer to check out the latest and greatest archery gear, realize that the probability of finding a bow with everything you need in the price range you can afford is good. Accuracy is vital because -- regardless of how fast your bow is -- if you can't hit the broadside of a barn, you won't harvest anything. An accurate bow is one with a long brace height. Extremely fast bows usually have a brace height in the 6-inch range. If you are an accomplished archer, a 6-inch brace height may be all you need. If you are an average shooter, a longer brace height in the 7-inch range is a good choice. The longer the brace height, the more accurate and forgiving a bow will be. If you aren't as steady as you used to be or not as accurate as you would like to be, a long brace height is a must. Most competitive archers shoot bows with at least a 7-inch brace height. Some professional archers shoot bows with a brace height that is 8-inches or more.When choosing a bow, you need to know which features you need and which ones you can live without. Most hunters want a bow that is as quiet and shock-free as possible. A quiet bow makes harvesting game easier. Deer are notorious for jumping the string. Since bows are quieter and faster than they used to be, not as many deer know an arrow is coming until it is too late. A quiet, shock-free bow is a smooth-shooting bow. The smoother your bow shoots, the more accurate you will be.If you hunt out West, where packing a bow in on your back for miles each day makes every ounce count, having an extremely lightweight bow is very important. When shopping for a bow, consider purchasing a ready-to-shoot bow package with vibration-destroying contraptions already on it. Most bow companies offer bows that come complete with limb and string noise and vibration devices already installed. However, if you are on a tight budget, you can always purchase a less expensive bow and add aftermarket anti-vibration devices when you get extra cash. Companies like Limbsaver produce a wide variety of aftermarket products that can quiet a bow and reduce hand shock. These products can be purchased one at a time. The weight of the bow is another thing to consider. If you hunt out West, where packing a bow in on your back for miles each day makes every ounce count, having an extremely lightweight bow is very important. If most of your hunting is done in a treestand within a mile of your car, it isn't as important. Most bows weigh between 3.5 and 5.5 pounds. If you fall into the first category, it may be worth paying a few extra dollars for a lighter bow. If you fall into the second category, a heavier, less-expensive bow may be more of what you are looking for.Pay close attention to the type of cam system a bow has and consider what type of system you want to shoot. (This means you'll need to shoot a few for comparison.) A few years ago, the favorite among most bowhunters was the single-cam bow. Single-cam bows are usually easier to tune than other cam configurations and are just as fast too. In the last few years, cam-and-a-1/2 systems and binary cam systems have become very popular. All three options are fast and fairly easy to tune. Often the deciding factor will be which one feels best to you.The last thing to consider is speed. Speed is important, but unless I'm shooting at mule deer and antelope at long distances, where an extremely fast arrow can make the difference if I misjudge the distance to an animal, I don't pay much attention to the IBO speed of a bow. In a hunting situation, almost any bow with an arrow that isn't too heavy will put most big game animals down at forty yards or less. If you enjoy taking long shots, faster bows are available to accommodate your need for speed. Some bows can send arrows sailing at over 340 fps. If you like speed and have the money, you have plenty of options.

#4 tinhunter

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 05:32 PM

Brace height does effect accuracy, but only in relation to your shooting form. A shorter brace height is less forgiving than a longer one. With a shorter brace height and poor form you could end up with a nice slap on your forearm from the string since the shorter brace height will put the string closer to your bow hand. This could cause you to develop a nice flinch or force you to make corrections and improve your form. Where brace height really comes into effecting accuracy is a shorter brace height has a longer power stroke before the arrow is released and the string comes to a stop. Which means the arrow is on the string longer before it is released. If you have a tendency to drop your bow hand slightly after the shot you could see arrows hit low. In essence a shorter brace height means you need better form in holding the bow, to prevent string slap, and since the arrow is on the string longer you also need better form in steadying the bow during and after the shot. This is how accuracy is effected by brace height; as far as I have been told.

#5 jawbreaker

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 06:00 PM

Isn't that pretty much what I said, but not in so many words.

#6 BC9696

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 07:02 PM

Are there specific design features that I should focus on for silent shooting? My two primary concerns are power and stealth. I want to launch the arrow further w/ greater accuracy than my current bow and it seems like more FPS will help w/ that. But equally important is the desire for a bow that is very quiet. mine has all the toys but it's still pretty loud. I'm reading and see alot of talk about design and component differences but much of the material seems to be prejudicial (a poster justifying his preference) or marketing BS (which...as a marketing guy I always question) so I look to hunters who can be objective. In this way I can narrow my choices and be better prepared to select the proper CB for me. I also recognize that w/ a 31" draw my choices automatically drop. I cannot convince myself I need a $1500.00-$1700.00 bow...although that might be a good fit. Once I narrow down the specific design/component features...I can start trial shooting to see what is comfy.

#7 jawbreaker

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 07:53 PM

Speed and quiet are good but quiet is more important. The way speed will help your accuracy is that you will have an easier time with judging yardage as your 20 yard pin now works out to 25 as well but as far as accurate it is all in the shooter. Most of the bows out there are very quiet and some things you can add to it will help to silence your bow . 31" draw is pretty long you must be pretty tall. The good thing about a long draw length is you will get better speeds out of a longer draw length, I am 5'9" and draw at 28" and shoot a mathews switch back. You could shoot a switch back at your 31" draw length and get more speed out of it. The most important thing about bow hunting is not how fast or how quiet your bow is, it is all about practicing and not shooting past your capability. Anotherwords if you are hunting deer and can hit a 6" paper plate at 60 yards every shot then you should be able to ethicaly kill a deer at that distance no mater how fast your bow is shooting. I haven't hunted with my bow as much as I used to since I have started predator hunting but need to get back into it more so call me and we can go the the range and tune up our shooting.

#8 fakawee

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 08:18 PM

Bruce, you need to go to a quality archery shop that will take the time to set up several bows in your draw length with different arrows and let you shoot them in a controlled indoor range. Even if that range is only 10 yards, you will get the feel of the different bows. If a shop has confidence in your shooting abilities, then they will also set up a chrono so you can see how fast each bow shoots. Speed is also not always good for a bow. You should be concerned more with shot placement and kinetic energy your arrows shoot. Most new archers are too concerned with speed because it makes up for their lack in distance judging. Also, a shorter bow (length) is more unstable to shoot than a longer bow. Couple a short bow (33" or less) with a short brace height (7" or less) and you have the makings of a disaster IF your shooting form is not exceptionally good. I shot IBO 3D's for years and used a Mathews (sponsor) bow that was 37" with a brace height of 7.75". Do yourself a favor and take your time buying your next compound bow or any bow for that matter. Take Ron up on his offer to take you to Willow Creek Archery in Escondido. I used to shoot with the owner and he's all about getting people into the right equipment. There is also the Bow N' Arrow shop in Lakeside down here in San Diego county that used to sponsor me. Good luck!
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#9 BC9696

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Posted 07 March 2010 - 09:18 PM

I'm 6' tall and believe my frustration w/ the Bear Extreme stems from improper pin setting of the sight and the estimated 240FPS (never chronoed). It's also pretty heavy. I do like the whisker biscuit. I am having it restrung and the sight reset...gotta wait a couple of weeks for the stretching and tune-up before I can practice. Scheduled some lessons with the guy Scott at OC Archery. I would like to be proficient to at least 50 yards. That's double my current ability. How much importance would you put on the FPS in my case? At 25 yards I am burying arrows in a Black Hole target (that's the name brand) to within an inch or two of the fletching (depending on angle if impact). The counter guy said it was slow but a good bow. Doesn't see too many Extremes in the shop.

#10 Camoghost

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 08:46 AM

The new Matthews!!!! It's bad, fast and light.. I love it!

#11 nje

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 09:12 AM

BC9696, have you ever taken anything with your current set up. try not to get caught up in the speed craze. most of theses bows that say they can shoot 300+ fps are hitting 270-280 which is plenty fast. most do not have the experience in tuning to achieve perfect broadhead flight out of the faster bows. the only reason i like speed is so i can shoot a heavier arrow. if i were a compound shooter i would want that 300+ fps bow so i could shoot heavier arrows and still be in the 250-260 fps range. if your new to this, i would stick with your current set-up until you gain some more experience.

#12 SpotandStalk

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 11:07 AM

Just a couple points to add or reconfirm. Choose a bow with a large brace height...7-8 inches. The bow won't be more or less accurate, but the larger-longer brace height makes the actual distance you pull back the string shorter so it is more forgiving to the shooter.Go to a pro shop and get a precise draw length calculated. I'm 6' and I pull 28.5"...my cousin and uncle are 6'4 and 6'5 and they pull 31". A rough estimate of correct draw length is your height...72"...divided by 2.5...so roughly 29"The 300fps is over rated. Most bows claim 300+ fps and when they're pulled for real...they come up short. If it was stated before, here it is again. The manufacture gives fps based upon their bow pulled at 70lbs with a 30" draw length. Most people shouldn't pull 70lbs and most people are too short to comfortably pull a 30" bow. I can pull a 30" bow, but it's too long so I start to get a sore shoulder quickly because I'm forced to spread it like an accordian. I'm a Hoyt fan, but I'm not interested in spending $1500 for a bow. I shoot the Hoyt Katera XL. It has a 7.5" brace height and is very accurate. The regular Hoyt Katera has a 6" brace height and that 1.5" makes a huge difference for me and my accuracy.Have fun looking for a new bow,SnShttp://www.huntersfr...ngth-weight.htm
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#13 BC9696

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 12:59 PM

The only things that I've shot w/ my Extreme are rodents. Maybe I'll chrono the bow after it's restrung and see just "how slow" it really is. Perhaps the guy who said that was slow (business-wise) and smelled a sale. How much difference is there in flight patterns between a Montec 100gr broadhead and a 125 gr broadhead? Is 25 grains significant?

#14 jawbreaker

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 04:50 PM

Broadhead flight depends on how well your bow is tuned and what arrow spine and weight and so on there is not a specific answer for you, some broadheads will fly good in one set up and not another.

#15 BC9696

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 05:02 PM

Wow...sounds complicated. Tuning eh... :rofl2:

#16 ShooterJohn

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 05:25 PM

But the first thing you need to do is get the quiver on right side up. Makes all the difference. :archer-green: Attached File  1.jpg   26.92KB   30 downloads

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#17 nje

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 06:37 PM

25 grains will effect the arrows point of impact. at 20 yards you should not see a difference. at longer distances it will. the heavier of the 2 will drop faster. the flight of the arrow is all about tuning, which is a simple process once you learn how.

#18 SpotandStalk

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:51 AM

How your bow is tuned and set up make a difference on how the broadhead will fly. I shoot 100's instead of 125's. In general, 100's are everything you need and seem to be easier to shoot accurately amongst several different bow set-ups. It's a little like shooting a 220 grain bullet in a 30.06...you can do it, but most guns and hunters will be better off with a 180 grain bullet (or smaller). :signs653wf: SnS
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#19 SpotandStalk

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:53 AM

Broadhead sharpness is more important than size. What ever size you use...make sure it is sharp!
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#20 BC9696

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 05:09 PM

Once the bow is restrung and tuned, i'm gonna chrono it and see just how "slow" it is. I have designated arrows and heads for hunting that I have never shot but basically match my practice sticks. Will drop to 100 gr for the piggies though. Thanks!Has anyone played with String Sights? and http://www.stringsight.com

#21 Thumper Dunker

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:36 PM

I think that will mess with your form . Keep it simple.
You can hop but you can't hide. Yahi Bowmen. Its not how far you can shoot but how close to the game you get when you shoot. Sights we don't need any sights. Why waist time reloading when I can be making arrows.




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