32 replies to this topic

[Oleboy]

Just a FYI Remington purchased Barnes. Who knows what will go down now.

[Jason]

Maybe they can get the prices into a more reasonable range and also put something in those little lead free razors so that some of the energy is transferred into the animal to cause some hydrostatic shock and actually drop them like traditional lead ammo.

[Fjold]

Here's the article:Freedom Group is the fund that Cerberus Investing put all their firearms aquisitions in.Madison, NC – Freedom Group, Inc. through a wholly owned subsidiary has entered into a purchase agreement to acquire certain assets of Barnes Bullets. The transaction closed on December 31, 2009.Barnes Bullets, located in Mona, Utah, is the industry-leading supplier of copper bullets, including copper-tin composite core bullets. These products are used by hunters, shooters, military and law enforcement professionals around the world. With their innovative designs, advanced manufacturing techniques and core focus on the end-user, Barnes Bullets has been a leading choice of commercial consumers, law enforcement and military users since its inception in 1932. Barnes Bullets will continue day-to-day operations at their Mona, Utah-based location under the guidance of company founder, Randy Brooks. "We welcome Randy and his team to the Freedom Group family,” commented Ted Torbeck, CEO of the Freedom Group, Inc. “With the acquisition of Barnes; the Freedom Group continues to demonstrate our commitment to the ammunition business. Barnes offers a premium line of high performance bullets for the hunting and shooting communities; and for law enforcement, military and commercial consumers around the world. We are excited about their research and development capabilities and the breadth of the products they bring to our portfolio." About Freedom Group, Inc. Freedom Group is the world’s leading innovator, designer, manufacturer, and marketer of firearms, ammunition, and related products for the hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement, and military markets. As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS/Panther Arms, Marlin, H&R, NEF, LC Smith, Parker, EOTAC, AAC, Dakota and INTC. The Company distributes its products throughout the U.S. and in over 80 foreign countries. More information about the Company can be found at www.freedom-group.com.

[ShooterJohn]

Thanks for adding this info Frank. I meant to look it up last night and got busy. Hopefully a larger company like this won't feed us to the dogs as was done by Barnes.

[Jason]

I wonder if someone shouldn't write the new owners a letter describing how Barnes screwed us over here in California, referencing the video footage of the hearing, and how that actually hurt their relationship with sportsmen here in California but that we welcome the new ownership of the company and hope to forge a better relationship with them. I would imagine that the new ownership has no idea how pissed off folks were in California at Barnes. Might help our case in future state hearings if the new Barnes owners realize the past mistake and try and make things right in the future.

[Troy08er]

Barnes saw this coming. Sell out Ca. lead free so Barnes is worth more. Then sell when Nosler's coming out wth their lead free.

[ShooterJohn]

That sure makes allot of sense to me. Scumbag Barnes maneuver.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

Its a two fold deal... Barnes sells us out.. Remington is selling rifles with the worst quality control than they ever had... "think 597 models" I think its a match made in Heaven... lol <runnin>

[Nalgi]

Wonder what if any changes will happen?

[Baja_Traveler]

Drove by the Barnes factory on my way to South Dakota last October - was tempted to stop, but thought better of it considering what they did to us here. Their new building is right next to the 15 freeway 1/2 hour south of SLC. I'll be seeing it again next month on my way to our annual ski trip in Solitude...

[Troy08er]

Its a two fold deal... Barnes sells us out.. Remington is selling rifles with the worst quality control than they ever had... "think 597 models" I think its a match made in Heaven... lol <runnin>

Does anyone know how much they paid.

[Braz]

I'll bet it was a little bit more than I got in my stock market account.

[Troy08er]

I'll bet it was a little bit more than I got in my stock market account.

Me to, But my QTM & KERX have been on a run.

[clampdaddy]

Hmm, I quess I don't have to hoard the last couple boxes of their stuff that I bought before the great Barnes sell out. I was in love with the 110gr. tsx in my 270wsm but I wasn't about to buy any more after what they did. Looks like it'll be back to buisness as useual. I sure am glad because I wanted try some of their bullets in my .308 Norma mag and my 7x57mm, but due to their actions in the past, that just wasn't going to happen.

[lilwes278]

I don't know, maybe I'm still bitter, but it says Remington is leaving Randy & his team intact. They are the ones that sold us out so to go buy their bullets now is still putting money in their pocket. Maybe not as directly as before, but they still have a job and are collecting a paycheck because of their actions in CA.

[JRW]

At the risk of sounding ignorant of whats going on in the guns and ammo world. What did the Barnes co. do?

[JimT.]

At the risk of sounding ignorant of whats going on in the guns and ammo world. What did the Barnes co. do?

Rumor has it they produce quality non-lead bullets. In CA there's a very lare condor area that is off-limits to lead shot therefore the need for non-lead (Barnes) bullets.

[JimT.]

Rumor has it they produce quality non-lead bullets. In CA there's a very lare condor area that is off-limits to lead shot therefore the need for non-lead (Barnes) bullets.

There are those that are in the know that say that Barnes was instumental in working with the CA Dept. of Fish and Game to push the no-lead condor area so hunters would be forced to buy Barnes bullets. Of course Barnes would deny this. I guess there are always two sides to a story and each side has its story. Take it for what it's worth. This subject could easily be covered in thousands of hours of reseach and thousands of pages of print. Suffice it to say you can start here and make your own decision.

[lilwes278]

There are those that are in the know that say that Barnes was instumental in working with the CA Dept. of Fish and Game to push the no-lead condor area so hunters would be forced to buy Barnes bullets. Of course Barnes would deny this. I guess there are always two sides to a story and each side has its story. Take it for what it's worth. This subject could easily be covered in thousands of hours of reseach and thousands of pages of print. Suffice it to say you can start here and make your own decision.

Or better yet you could just watch the video that shows a Barnes representative stand up in front the CA DF&G board at a lead-ban proposal meeting and tell them about how cheap & plentyful non-lead ammo is, and that there really is no reason to be shooting lead anymore (ironically, Barnes was the only company producing non-lead bullets at the time - not to mention their prices were anywhere from two to five times higher than lead ammo). Kind of hard to believe in "two sides to every story" when you can see the facts with your own eyes...

[JRW]

I'm aware of the non lead area in fact i deer hunt in it every year and since the lead ban i have been loading my own non lead rounds with Barnes bullets. i hadnt heard about any of this.

[ShooterJohn]

Yep, Barnes representative stood right in front of the F&G commission and told them their bullets were actually cheaper and that they had plenty of every necessary caliber to go around. Now other bullet manufacturer came to the commission meeting.

[JimT.]

SJ, I was at a meeting with a Barnes representative speaking and I would swear they denied they did this and therefore the two different stories. I wanted to jump up and shout, "Liar, liar, pants on fire" but it would not have been politically correct.It would be nice if Barnes would act as the catalyst to get others manufacturing non-lead bullets so we could get the pirices in line with lead.

[lilwes278]

It would be nice if Barnes would act as the catalyst to get others manufacturing non-lead bullets so we could get the pirices in line with lead.

It'll never happen. Market prices dictate the cost of materials and I highly doubt copper will ever be cheaper than or even equal to lead. But, even if material costs were not a factor, do you seriously think Barnes would voluntarily cut off the steady profit flow they've enjoyed since the ban went into effect? Remember we're talking about the same company that played a critical role in throwing CA sportsmen under the bus. To think they'll somehow find their morals and do the "right" thing now is nothing more than wishful thinking.

[OrneryOlMofo357]

And thanks to Nosler, I see that Cabelas has a 40 gr Ballistic tip Non-lead in .223 for about the same price as the leaded Bullets. I hope that the price gouging may soon get easier.

[clampdaddy]

SJ, I was at a meeting with a Barnes representative speaking and I would swear they denied they did this and therefore the two different stories......

Of course they denied it, and they'll deny that they had the film of those hearings edited, but alot of us here actually watched the video, got all pissed off, and started sending e-mails to Barnes, and quit buying their products.Here's a small snippit from Paul H. Payne reguarding the matter.

I discussed that very issue of "cost and availability" with the Barnes representative at the CA Fish & Game Commission Hearing both before and after he made his presentation to the Commission. It was quite obvious to him that I was not happy with his presentation, or the fact that he was there.

Hey SJ, maybee that old thread needs to be drug out for some of the uninformed to see. I couldn't find it.

[rude robert]

that is why i didnt want to buy copper bullets for my .357 and 44 mag because what barns represents. i may buy 20 bullets more from them but i hope no more. i dont go to non lead area much unless i have my bow. during non deer season i can carry a side arm just in case of a bear or mtn lion shows up, but other then that ill try the peeps with the bow lol................so pls forgive me guys for buying the barns bullets to reload with lol

[bruce_ventura]

I wont' argue about the DFG video, because I haven't seen it. This is all news to me. The people at Barnes that I have met are all sportsmen and shooters and would not welcome any restrictions to their sports anywhere. It sounds to me like someone at Barnes let themsleves become a pawn in state politics. If so, they were more naiive than conniving. I know who to ask and will try to find out how they got involved. Can anyone post a link to the video?However, if I blacklisted every company in the shooting industry that has made a profit-motivated business decision that was not in my own interest, well, I would probably be left with a muzzle loader, some bullet molds, and a bucket full of lead tire weights. Let's face it, California is just not a good place to live if you're into shooting sports. The lead ban is just the tip of the iceberg. Sportsmen are a minority in this state. Our fate is in the hands of the goofy voters in the Bay Area, LA and San Diego. In my opinion, Barnes' products are expensive partly because they're made of copper, they're premium quality bullets, and Barnes has had a monopoly until recently. I've been to the Barnes factory in Mona. It's ultraclean and organized, their QC is outstanding, and their indoor ballistic test facility would blow your mind (15, 100 and 300! yd fully instrumented indoor ranges). I've found that their bullets are very accurate and have outstanding terminal performance. That said, I wish the copper bullets were cheaper and I may get my wish soon. Barnes' key patent expired last year. Not suprisingly, Hornady and Nosler came out with a limited selection of non-lead bullets at just about the same time. Now that they have some competition, the price of Barnes bullets should come down.

[ShooterJohn]

Barnes is now owned by Remington.http://www.remington...nes-bullet.aspx

[Nalgi]

does anyone have a link to this video?Barnes has been higher priced but with Nosler BT non lead at lead prices market forces will prevail. I think the bigger issue is how the condor is the only animal in the world eating lead from animals shot with lead bullets and dieing from it.That is more BS than anything

[bruce_ventura]

Here is a link to the link to the video on Calspan.org. http://www.barnesbul.....ead 2008a.pdfThe commission showed Barnes' DVD, which is widely available. The Barnes presentation was given by a person at Barnes (not the owners) who I have worked with and respect. It was pretty much the standard brief that Barnes gives to its customers. Most of the information in the presentation is available on Barnes' web site. Additional information was given about Barnes manufacturing capacity, and a cost comparison between several calibers of Barnes TSX and Nosler partition bullets. The cost difference was insignificant, but both are premium quality bullet lines - not your typical Walmart ammo component. I think that my first reaction above was accurate: I think Barnes probably saw this as an opportunity to get their name and product in front of potential customers. Obviously, they are proud of their products. I also think they subsequently became a pawn in this highly charged political issue. Barnes was probably naiive to think that their presentation to the DFG Commission would not create an image problem with California hunters. They probably regret attending the meeting, as evidenced by the press release in the link above. At the time there was only one company making non-lead bullets in any significant quantity, although premium ammunition using Barnes bullets was available from nine manufacturers. The issue of ammunition cost was discussed and the suggestion was made for the state to offer coupons to reduce the cost of non-lead ammunition. I don't recall that ever happened. I watched over an hour of the video, which goes on for over five hours. The first part of the video covers scientific data related to lead mortality of condors. I am a scientist and I found some of these presentations compelling and some much less so. The high lead mortality rate in condors is hard to argue. The source of lead poisioning is still open for debate, however. The high correlation of ammunition lead isotope ratios with lead poisoning in condors was supposed to be the "smoking gun", but the researchers did not compare lead isotope ratios for ammunition with other known sources of ingestible lead, such as paint. Biologists and toxicologists clearly assumed the lead source was ammunition, and conducted research specifically to prove that assumption. However, they focused on ammunition to the exclusion of other sources of lead poisoning. In my view this is sloppy science and the Commision should have forced the scientists to be more thorough. I don't think it was Barnes who sold us out, but the DFG Commission, who acted on incomplete scientific data.