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Iron/Glass Sight Versatility


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#1 ipser

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:48 AM

What are the options for sights? Here is a short list:1) Iron sights2) ScopeThe problem with iron sights is that you can't make those long shots accuratly. The probelm with a scope is that you can't make those short shots quickly.Here are a couple other options:3) See through scope rings4) Quick detach scope mountsThe problem with see through scope rings is that it mounts the scope too high.The problem with quick detach scope mounts is that when you put the scope back on you are probably not zeroed which is particularly problematic for the very long shots you need the scope for.You need the scope out of the way when you are carrying it and to put it on only when you need it because, by definition, you won't have time to remove the scope for a quick shot. It's the long shots where you have time to make changes to your configuration.Conceptually, the see through scope mounts would be the ideal solution and, in fact, that's what I have on my AR15. The 4x scope mounts on the handle without obscuring the iron sights. That works fine for me. But I have yet to find anyone who was happy with the see through scope mount on high powered rifles.Am I missing a good solution?

#2 Braz

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:58 AM

First off, welcome to the forum. You have entered a great place, where, I'm sure, you will find a great deal of great information. As to your questions, there are so many variables that it is difficult to answer your question. What kind of animal are you shooting? From a bench, shooting sticks, off hand, etc. When you say long range, what ranges are you talking? 100 yards, 200, 500? When you say up close, what does that mean? 10 feet or 10 yards? There are different types of iron sights that can be used. You can use an aperature sight of some kind, like a tang sight for instance, that is suprisingly accurate a distances out to, say 150-200 yards. It is also deadly up close. With scopes, if you use something like a 2-7 power scope, it is also very well suited for up close and distance shots.

#3 ipser

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:53 PM

I took my girls pig hunting for the first time a few weekends ago around San Miguel. I didn't know what to expect, having only hunted in TX before (birds and deer mostly).What I found was illuminating.Vast hilly grasslands. If you spot a pig on the opposite hill that's extreme long range if it's possible at all. So you and your gun are the limit on the long range shots.Then there are the micro forests that dot the landscape where the pigs bed down. That's where the quick short range shots will happen. I'd hate to be fumbling to find a boar bearing down on me in the woods, even with a 2x.So that's pretty extreme alternates.My current solution is to carry a Marlin 336 30-30 with peep sights, for the woods encounters, and to let my girls take the liesurely long range shots with a scoped 243.I thought maybe I had a solution in the see-through scope mounts till I started reading all the negative comments on them. I have yet to find anyone who likes them.

#4 Divernhunter

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:08 PM

You will have no trouble with a short range and/or quick shot with a scope IF 1) the gun fits you and the scope is mounted low. The gun MUST fit when thrown up to your shoulder and you must be looking thru the scope. To see if your gun fits close your eyes(use an empty gun!) and throw the gun up as to shoot. Then without moving open your eye(s). If you are not looking thru the scope without moving your head then the gun does not fit you. I often do this test to people at the target range who are having trouble with their rifles. A change of mounts/scopes or a recoil pad with a different lenght of pull will often cure the trouble. This does away with the 50mm and up lens that some are so fond of. 2)It also means a scope of reasonable power such as 2X7/3X9/3.5X10. I have shot pronghorns at over 500-600 yards with a 3X9 scope. These 6Xwhatever etc etc scopes are not suited on an all around big game rifle where you may have a quick close shot. On a nonAR platform normal hunting rifle see-thru scope mounts are a sure sign of a beginner with little knowledge of rifles/hunting. Same with scopes, especially big to huge scoped mounted very high. The closer the scope to the barrel the better. My go-to rifle has the scope(Leupold 3X9) mounted so that a busness card will just clear between the front bell and the barrel. That is what you want.I have taken many short range and quick shots with a scoped rifle and connected with the game animal. I have also missed a few due to a rifle/scope that did not fit me. My go-to rifle was one that did not fit me and cost me my biggest blacktail deer as it was q quick shot. After that I changed the scope and rear stock and shortened the barrel. I have never missed one since then. I killed at least one buck every year for 22 years in zone D6 after that as well as other game. Also hunt with the scope on the LOWEST power. You can turn it up if needed but it sucks to have it on a high power when you get a quick/close shot. :smiley-outta-here: I do not say any of this to make anyone mad or brag. I just want to help and have helped quite a number of others over the years. I to learned the hard way on many things.

#5 ipser

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:17 PM

Thanks for the great advice. I'll try that at the range next time. The 243 scope is 3.5-10x so a little more than you reccomend but on the low side should be close enough to try out your advice.I'm still curious why the AR solution seems to work so well there doesn't work elsewhere.

#6 Divernhunter

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:54 PM

A 3.5X10 on 3.5 power should not be much or any handicap if it is mounted as low as possible and always keep it on the lowest power to hunt with. Do not ask how I have learned this lession........several times over the last 45+ years. If you get a long shot you can turn it up BUT REMEMBER to turn it back down if you resume hunting. Do not ask about my lessions on this either. As for the AR. Look at it compared to a other type hunting rifle(savage/tikka/rem/ruger/win etc) and see the design differences. Actually the AR platform is a handicap for quick shooting from the shoulder with an AIMED shot and there have been changes in it and sights to make it better. Still a normal rifle which fits you will always be better than the AR or any rifle which does not fit. If I may ask what rifle do you have and what mounts/scope are you using?

#7 ipser

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:58 AM

As for the AR. Look at it compared to a other type hunting rifle(savage/tikka/rem/ruger/win etc) and see the design differences. Actually the AR platform is a handicap for quick shooting from the shoulder with an AIMED shot and there have been changes in it and sights to make it better.

I've only ever shot my AR at the range so I should try some open field shooting with it sometime to see for myself what you mean. At the range, I find it a very natural fit both on and off the bench, it is my favorite target rifle. But even off the bench that's not the same as walking throug the woods and taking a quick shot at a charging boar. (I could probably try quickly shouldering the rifle at the range and trying to hit the target but I fear the rangemaster will rap my knuckles with a ruler if I try that.)

If I may ask what rifle do you have and what mounts/scope are you using?

Currently we're taking two rifles: I'm carrying a Marlin 336 30-30 with Lyman peep sights and my girls are sharing a Sako 75 243 with the 3.5-10x scope mentioned above mounted normally.I may buy a new rifle for one of my daughters (she's a lefty).I've thought about adding a scope to the 30-30 but I hate to give up the peep sights.But the Marlin is really not designed for long range shooting, anyway, so I'm always thinking about a new hunting rifle for myself.

#8 daiwa

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 03:48 PM

Nice information on scopes I appreciate it.I bought a Savage 111 Big 5 special with a Simmons 3x9 scope mounted on it. I plan on replacing it with a Leupold VX-I or a Leupold Ultralight 3x9. So I am curious to know how to order a scope and mounting rings correctly so I can get it as close to the barrel as possible?As of now it has about a 3/4 inch gap between the bottom of the objective lens and the barrel. And it does shoulder nice when I bring it up to aim through the scope.




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