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Apparently I need a Scope Coach


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#1 BC9696

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:09 AM

I tried for 40 rounds to sight in a couple of rifle scopes yesterday and found I absolutely could not get em dialed in. One rifle keep shooting to the left and low, I couldn't get it to come to the center no matter how many clockwise clicks I put on it. Arrggg! The counterclockwise clicks worked on the elevation but it still shot to the left. Another rifle was shooting way high and to the left a bit and I couldn't get it to zero in either. A sighting scope woulda helped...guess I'll be buying one soon. I could really use a hand if somebody wants to come to http://www.angelesranges.com in the coming week or so. It seems simple enough but in actual practice I found it quite frustrating. I'm new to scope shooting and for the life of me, cannot figure out what i am doing wrong. I anchored the rifles in a lead sled and everything...shot the same ammo. Used a bright orange target, did have some swirling winds but not enough to matter at 100 yards. :) Maybe someone can help me get em sighted in? I can go midweek or weekends...am currently on a 6 wk vacation. Thanks.

#2 Bennie

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:22 AM

I live too far to help, but will ask this question just to try. Please take no offense I seen this happen one time. The question is: Did you put the elevation turret on top?. I seen a gun with the scope mounted wrong one time that a guy could not sight in. It was an easy fix. Is the gun a bolt action? Was it shooting in the same place every time if you did not adjust the turrets?

#3 ShooterJohn

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:16 AM

If they are bolt rifles just pull the bolt and bore site them first. Sure saves on the ammo.

#4 Switch

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:18 AM

I was going to suggest the same thing. Make sure the scope is mounted tight as well. Elevation adjustment (up and down) turret on top and windage (right or left) turret on the side.

#5 Bennie

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:26 AM

If they are bolt rifles just pull the bolt and bore site them first. Sure saves on the ammo.

I was going to take him there too. But on the web I just figured to try one thing at a time.

#6 ShooterJohn

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:33 AM

I know it's like when I'm at the range and someone has a problem sighting in. I have a laundry list of things I just do to solve the problem without thinking about it. It can be difficult diagnosing a scope problem on a forum. But if you know it's bore sited then you can start checking other things.

#7 jawbreaker

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:26 AM

BC, I'm going to the range I belong to in rainbow tomarrow if you want to come along I can give you a hand. PM me if you're interested. Ron

#8 BC9696

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 09:30 AM

I don't know squat about mountings and adjusting them. Don't have a bore sight either. I can say this. The pattern was consistent. The gun shot straight before I purchased hot loads (for the 45-70 Govt) and now my pattern is feces. That's why I am looking for somebody to provide some hands-on assistance because telling me what to do and actually showing me what to do (and look for) are quite different. I'll pay for everything at the range! Buy lunch too!!I was told bore sights were a waste of money. Untrue? Also, who makes a great spotting scope (w/ small tripod)?

#9 Jeff

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:02 AM

When they say bore sight, they mean EMPTY AMMO FROM GUN FIRST1) pull the bolt out of the gun2) go put your gun on a 25 yard or so range (this is what I do), 3) and look through the bore at the target. 4) start lining up your scope crosshairs on the target too.5) if you want, put the bolt back in and shoot once on the 25 yard target to see if you're close6) go sight in at 100 yards.Much less ammo.

#10 BC9696

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:55 AM

Ohhhhhhh... :smiley-funny-post-sign: I thought you guys meant one of these:Posted Image

When they say bore sight, they mean EMPTY AMMO FROM GUN FIRST1) pull the bolt out of the gun2) go put your gun on a 25 yard or so range (this is what I do), 3) and look through the bore at the target. 4) start lining up your scope crosshairs on the target too.5) if you want, put the bolt back in and shoot once on the 25 yard target to see if you're close6) go sight in at 100 yards.Much less ammo.



#11 Bennie

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 11:46 AM

With a bolt action gun you can do this: 1. Make sure gun is empty.2. Take out bolt. If your 45-70 is falling block you may still be able to do this.3. Look through center of bore and line up center of bore with a target. Sand bag gun in so it does not move. Your lead sled will work good for this. Look through bore again and make sure target is still in center of bore. I use a red dot on fence at 50 yards.4. Now look through scope with out moving gun and adjust cross hairs so that they are on the target too. When you can look through the center of bore and the scope and they are both on target you should be close enough to hit paper when you start shooting.Before you do this make sure that rings and base's are tight. I use blue loctight on my base and ring screws. Elevation turret is on top and windage turret is on side. Cross hairs are level when gun is level=this is important if you are shooting long range. The vertical post has to be perfectly vertcal through center of bore when gun is level or it will not track right if you dial in a bunch of elevation. Also on some base and ring set up's you can adjust alot of windage with ring screws before you ever even start to dial the scope. you want to do this or some times it will look like your crosshairs are not centered in scope.I hope this helps please feel free to ask any quetions. If you lived closer I would come and help you. This would be alot easier to explain in person. P.S. My best freind can not sight in a scope. He is a very very good shot though. He is a lot better shot than I am. I sight in his rifle every year and we hunt together. The reason he can not sight in a scope is he is Dyslexic. He just can not do it I don't care he is my best freind.

#12 BullsEye

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 01:35 PM

Hey BC just rent a spoting scope for a few dollars at Angeles Range. I would go with you but I am booked solid till the end of the month.

#13 BC9696

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 06:05 PM

Is a Meade Redtail 20-60X77 spotting scope a decent one? I know someone asking $180. for it. Worthwhile?

#14 sum-rifle

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 07:25 PM

You should not be shooting at 100 yards first off. Try more like 25 yards.Bore sight as stated.What kind of scopes are you using?Some are much better than others.You may need to "Mechanically center" the scope and start over. If the scope is "click" adjustable go all the way one way until it won't go any further. Now go back the other way counting the clicks. Now go back half that many clicks. Now do the same thing with the other adjustment. Now you are mechanically centered.Now bore sight and shoot at close range. Remember if you are 2" left at 25 yards that is the same as 8" at 100 so you have to adjust the scope 4X as many clicks to get it to move the same amount.Get it centered left to right first. Then get it to where you want it high. Then move the target to 100 yards and do it some more.If you have junk scopes you are wasting your time and ammo.

#15 Shoot-it

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 07:56 AM

Everything already said. I like to start with a target at 25 yards it makes it easyer to get it sighted in.

#16 Frank

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:06 AM

BC, that is the range I go to but unfortunately I cannot make it for several weeks (or?). However, "IF" I do get a break in the action I will definitely give you a shout. I've always got some load(s) or another that I'm testing. You're dilemma is killing me, so can imagine your frustration.Anyway, ditto all the above but as you say, nothing like hands on training. Also, I am wondering about the scope itself. Hopefully it is of good quality/brand as that will increase the odds of it NOT being the scope. There are bore sighting tools, but the ones I've seen inlcuding Leupold etc are best used AFTER a rifle has been bore sighted by eyeball per the instructions above. Then you can take a reading that can be used later on should the scope get knocked out of alignment. Other than that they are pretty much useless. But hey, they are inexpensive. So??Good LuckFrank

#17 BC9696

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 07:34 PM

The 45-70 Govt has a BDC that worked fine w/ the old factory ammo so something must be wrong...maybe it is loose from shooting hot Buffalo Bore loads?Attached File  1.jpg   19.02KB   30 downloads

#18 BC9696

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 07:38 PM

The Savage Predator comes stock with a 4 to 12 power Simmons scope and is supposed to be pretty decent.Attached File  2.jpg   28.03KB   31 downloads

#19 Frank

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 08:13 PM

BDC stands for bullet drop compensator and is made by many different manufactures. So tough to say on that one. My "guess" is some kind of Bushnell or similar (less expensive) scope. While some folks do indeed like Simmons, they really are not a quality scope. Perhaps their more expensive models may be ok, however?? Folks (myself included) often times buy a Simmons or worse yet, a BSA in order to try and save $$... Unfortunately, in the long run it usually ends up costing us more, like with most things in life. Nikon, Leupold, Zeiss, Nightforce & others are the industry standards to measure the rest by & are the only ones I buy anymore.Yes, the BDC may have failed since firing the factory ammo. It of course would not be because of the factory ammo, but rather the scope just gave up the ghost and either needs replaced or repaired. Again, lots of guessing here on the board without testing.Frank

#20 Desert Fox

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 09:23 PM

This is the problem when purchasing package rifle with scopes already mounted on them. Most of the time it was put together by store employees who have limited knowledge about the intricacy or the inner workings of riflescopes,,, let alone properly mounting them. Sometimes even claiming that it was professionally mounted. You can't just slapped bases, rings and scopes together and call it done. It takes at least an hour or two to properly mount a stress free riflescope. This will include aligning of the base, lapping of rings, leveling and boresighting. Sometimes it will even take longer if you have to bed the ring with epoxy. BC, find someone that can show you the rope. There are several member here that live close to you that can help. If you can't find anybody, you're more than welcome to PM me. I'm not that far from you, considering that you travel to Angeles just to shoot. :good:

#21 BC9696

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 08:29 AM

Ain't that the truth! From So. OC it's a good hour+ drive to any decent range to shoot. Since my shooting with these rifles will most likely be limited to distances of 200 yrds or less, once properly mounted and assuming I can hold a decent pattern, is it still worthwhile to replace em?EDIT: Spoke to a rangemaster named Kevin Kalspeak at the Tujunga range today. He agreed to meet w/ me Thursday to evaluate my problem...said there are a number of things that could be responsible (beyond the scope/mounting) including the stock. If it is the scope, he'll be able to diagnose the problem and offer corrective measures. We'll see soon enough...thanks guys.

#22 BC9696

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Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:21 PM

Went to Tujunga today and Kevin deftly identified the problems. Pulled the stock off, took some sandpaper to it, made a couple of minor adjustments and now the Mauser w/ Nikon BDC scope is spot on! Consistently took out the 1" orange center at 100 yards. Wow! Then he adjusted the Savage scope and determined it wasn't the gun but the "green" ammo I was using. Looks like the 43gr nontoxic Federal ammo is no bueno, my rifle hates it. Gotta find new ammo for the 22-250.




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