8 replies to this topic

[neocone]

http://www.dtic.mil/...4solic/flat.pptFascinating study of ammo using the "Busemann's biplane" concept of self-cancelling supersonic shockwaves... resulting in a SILENT hypersonic ammo (since rifle ammo travels at hypersonic speeds).Introducing the experimental .65 Tubular ammo (muzzle velocity of 5000 fps+):Significant increase in kinetic energy over .50 caliberTerminal ballistics far superior to .50 caliber APFlatter trajectory than .50 caliberShorter time of flight than .50 caliberGreater range than .50 caliberLow weight system/low cost ammunition

[novaman64]

interesting... now how do you keep the powder from falling out? seems like you would loose some of the efficency of the charge this way....

[neocone]

I suspect a sabot can be used or a flat base pushing that puppy out the muzzle. The speed is about 5000 fps and probably can exceed 6k fps once mass production kinks are out of the way.It is extremely aerodynamic and can be 100% non leaded but faster and with better range and wouldn't require a rifled barrel.One wacko idea would be to also use a log needle in the center of the barrel to accelerate it using electromagnetic force... thus making for a truly silent ammo not needing powder with no moving parts besides the bullet.I am going to write to S&W and other manufacturers and ask them what's their take on this concept.

[novaman64]

Im curious to see what they say, all though on smaller calibers you would prolly need a projectile that is super long to get even a semi-reasonable rait, and I am guessing they would burn up the barrel pretty fast at 5000fps. I dont think its anything that would be to feasible to retrofit onto a current hunting/target rifle.It would be cool to go to the range and completely cut the X ring out... hah... New way to make those annoying little holes that always fall out of the 3 hole punch at a inopportune time.I suppose a sabot would work but I am thinking that something more along the lines of wadding might work as well... Let me know if any of the manufacturers respond to your email...

[Skyshadow]

One wacko idea would be to also use a log needle in the center of the barrel to accelerate it using electromagnetic force... thus making for a truly silent ammo not needing powder with no moving parts besides the bullet.

What you're talking about is generally known as either a coilgun or a railgun (similar concepts, different operating principles).A friend of mine worked for a while on a larger-scale version of these for the Navy and we're geeked out about it at length. There are a couple of key issues that currently keep this from being useful as a man-portable weapon (according to him, these problems exist at pretty much any scale):

• Power. Even for small projectiles, these weapons need a relatively large amount of energy delivered very quickly and very precisely. This means that you need fairly large capacitors and (if you want to fire more than once) either heavy batteries or some sort of serious power generation (like the engines of a Navy ship).
• Heat. Pushing the sort of power we're talking about through a small area causes a lot of heat. In terms of the ship-mounted Navy railguns, this means that currently they have to routinely replace portions of the weapon after a relatively small number of firings. I've been told this scales down (not as much heat for a smaller version, but smaller versions can also handle less).
• Magnetism. These things operate using powerful electromagnets, which isn't a problem unless you have glasses or a ring or buttons on your jacket. This is very similar to the precautions you have to take with MRI machines -- the scaled-down version they were working with was apparently powerful enough to tear your finger off it you were foolish enough to leave a ring on around it when it cycled.
• Penetrating power. The advantage of this class of weapons is they can fire a projectile very, very fast and thus put a whole lot of energy into a small package. This is also a disadvantage -- they tested the Navy version against an target vessel and found that they just ended up with a hole on either side of the ship. The projectile wasn't able to dump its kinetic energy into the target, it just punched right through.

Anyway, as a result of these factors nobody's seriously working on a man-portable version yet. Interestingly, the Navy's interested in using them for missile defense -- they have a version that shoots a small projectile at around 3 miles per second, so for practical purposes it's almost like shooting a laser.

[novaman64]

3 miles per second

[clampdaddy]

I've seen adds in the back of various hunting/shooting magazines that advertize a bullet with a hole that goes all the way thru. Looks like it's loaded in a 45-70 or .444 case. The sales pitch reads "The bullet with the hole is better than the whole bullet".

[BC9696]

I'd like to see that...I shoot a 45-70 Govt. Got a URL?

[clampdaddy]

I found one of their advertisements in the back of an old issue of Rifle magazine. The company is called Jada Enterprise (520) 682-6609. They must have abandoned their website though because www.jadaenterprise.com now belongs to another company. They advertise ".44 & .45 bullets with .50 sabot" for muzzle loaders and ".44 &.45 bullets for .444 & .45-70 thru .458 Win Rifles"