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#1 novaman64

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:37 AM

I have a 4.5-14x40 Nikon Buckmaster Mil Dot scope. My question has to do with the Mil Dots. I have looked through the owners manual and cant seem to find it, nut I was wondering if anybody could tell me at what magnification are the dots are measured.To better explain myself... Lets just say, for example, I am at the range shooting at 200 yards, which my rifle is zerod at, and I want to shoot a target at 300 yards, based on my bullets ballistics I know its going to be -6.15" lower if I were to put my cross hairs rt on the target, in this case according to Pejsa's calc the difference is 4.1 MOA, or a little over 4 dots. But is that at 14x magnificationn, or 10x or 4x or what????

#2 Jerry

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:54 AM

A way to check would be: next time you are at the range:Make a 3.6" tall mark on your target. At 100 yards, look at the target through the scope. Line up the centers of a dot and one above OR below it. The top and bottom of your mark should be at the center of the dots you lined them up with. Thus will be either 10x or 14x. That is your setting and all size and ranging should be from there.
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#3 novaman64

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 08:59 AM

Ok, next question, as mil dots with varying power scopes confuse me....Of it is rated at 10x, the when I am at 14x (4x more power than 10x), does that mean 1 dot will equal 4 mil???

#4 novaman64

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:18 AM

Ok, got the info I needed from Nikon. In case anyone is interested I will answer my own question. LOLon my scope the settings are defualt at 12x, so one distance between mildots is 3.6 inches at 100 yards and 12x magnification. So if I wanted to shoot at 14x that would change to 3.12 inches. They actually have a very useful substensions chart in the back of their catalog. Would have been helpful if they put that in the manual that came with the scope!

#5 howah

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 02:02 PM

i have the same scope. like novaman said, it's 12x, which should be marked ml on the mag. adjustment ring

#6 Desert Fox

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 06:51 PM

I have a 4.5-14x40 Nikon Buckmaster Mil Dot scope. My question has to do with the Mil Dots. I have looked through the owners manual and cant seem to find it, nut I was wondering if anybody could tell me at what magnification are the dots are measured.To better explain myself... Lets just say, for example, I am at the range shooting at 200 yards, which my rifle is zerod at, and I want to shoot a target at 300 yards, based on my bullets ballistics I know its going to be -6.15" lower if I were to put my cross hairs rt on the target, in this case according to Pejsa's calc the difference is 4.1 MOA, or a little over 4 dots. But is that at 14x magnificationn, or 10x or 4x or what????

Nov, If you compensate 4 dot, you will miss your target by a mile. I'm exagerating of course. MOA (minute of angle) is not mildot. 1 mildot = 3.438 MOA at 100 yards or 3.6 inches at 100 yards, 7.2 inches at 200, 10.8 inches at 300 and so on and so forth. So in other words, if you are zeroed at 200, that means you are 3.6 inches high at 100 and 7.2" low at 300 yards which is a difference of 1.05 inches when compared with your bullet drop. So to hit the target you need to use the first dot and you're only off by about an inch. It doesn't matter what magnification you're scope is set! you'll be fine since the reticle size remain constant at any magnification. It only matters if you use the mil scale to range your target. In this case you need the highest magnification for accurate ranging. Hope this made sense. DF
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#7 Jerry

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:05 PM

It doesn't matter what magnification you're scope is set! you'll be fine since the reticle size remain constant at any magnification. It only matters if you use the mil scale to range your target. In this case you need the highest magnification for accurate ranging. Hope this made sense. DF

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement, when holding over, if the Mils are calibrated for use at 10x, then the scope at another setting will be an entirely different increment between mils. If set at 5x magnification, the distance between dots would be 7.2". Half magnification means that the mils are going to represent DOUBLE the space. Unless, it is a first focal plane scope, which it is NOT.If you use the mils for hold over/under or windage, it is IMPERATIVE that you understand the changes in magnification and how they will affect your subtensions.
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#8 novaman64

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:02 PM

Nov, If you compensate 4 dot, you will miss your target by a mile. I'm exagerating of course. MOA (minute of angle) is not mildot. 1 mildot = 3.438 MOA at 100 yards or 3.6 inches at 100 yards, 7.2 inches at 200, 10.8 inches at 300 and so on and so forth.

Correct... I have been playing with this in some calcs with the subtensions. Basically, im not worried about it unless im at 14x, my bullet travels flat enough that i can pretty much put my corsshairs on what I want out to 400 yards and be in the kill zone, for 400+ yards I will most likely be at 14x, which means that the distance between mils on my scope is no longer 3.6, but 3.12, due to the changes in magnification. So, to make things easy say I wanted to shoot exactly 6.24 inches higher than my zero (using 14x), in order to adjust for bullet drop I would aim 2 mills and that would put me spot on...

#9 Mayhem

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:01 PM

DeletedI started typing about Milrads, Minutes of angle, FFP anf RFP reticles. Mixing Mildot reticles with MOA turrets and mathematical equations and conversion formulas ... then my head really started to hurt.If I'm not mistaken don't most Rear/second Focal Plane mildot scopes measure at the max zoom?This is why I like mildot based FFP verible power scopes with .1 milrad turrets. Due to the military I'm used to doing all my shooting using metric. with metric everything is devisiable by 10. so the math is much much easier. a FFP scope when you increase your magnification power your reticle is also magnified so 1 mil on your reticle stays 1 mil regardless of what magnification your on. The disadvantage of this is when at max power the reticle gets large and can obscure the target if its really small or at a very long range.With most tactile scopes you use your turrets to make adjustments rather then using the reticle for hold over (not that you can't). It would probably be cheaper and easier for most people that are not going to use a tactile scope to it's fullest ability to just use a cheaper scope with some form of hold over markers like a buris fullfield II, a good range finder, and a cheat sheet.
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#10 novaman64

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 06:46 AM

With most tactile scopes you use your turrets to make adjustments rather then using the reticle for hold over (not that you can't). It would probably be cheaper and easier for most people that are not going to use a tactile scope to it's fullest ability to just use a cheaper scope with some form of hold over markers like a buris fullfield II, a good range finder, and a cheat sheet.

Pretty much what I am doing, except using a mildot for my hold over markers... I made a little cheat sheet that I keep on my rifle, based on my bullets ballistics, I hit the target with a rangefinder, then know how many mildots I need to hold based on yardage....Im not shooting with a $1500 NF scope, but a $250 Nikon Buckmaster. The scope handles what I as a shooter am capable off. If there is a shot 500+ yards i most likely am not going to take it because at those ranges I question my shooting ability. Up to 500 I dont have a doubt that when I pull the trigger I know exactly where that bullet is going to be +/- a few inches....

#11 Desert Fox

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 05:14 PM

I have to respectfully disagree with that statement, when holding over, if the Mils are calibrated for use at 10x, then the scope at another setting will be an entirely different increment between mils. If set at 5x magnification, the distance between dots would be 7.2". Half magnification means that the mils are going to represent DOUBLE the space. Unless, it is a first focal plane scope, which it is NOT.

Jerry, I stand corrected. My statement applies only on scope that are FFP but not SFP. Novaman, Mildot are lousy to use for hold over. They're just too coarse. Even when using for ranging you have to be very still or you can easly misread the distance. There are better reticle design out there that are better suited for hold over. Burris Ballistic plex is one, Leupold Boone and Crocket and Varmint Hunter and Nikon BDC.
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#12 howah

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 08:43 PM

at -500 yards. your scope should have enough elevation left to dial in the shot. take the guess out of estimation

#13 Pruneemac

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:32 PM

this might be the retard way but I started at my lowest power; sighted in at 100 yds. and field tested each mil dot. at each magnification. then made my own spreadsheet, laminated it and taped it to my stock. I know this is pretty basic but hey! Its good practice and I have absolute knowledge and confidence in my load, scope and ability.The idea is to burn ammo not electricity running a computer! :roflmao3[1]:

#14 Desert Fox

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:28 PM

The idea is to burn ammo not electricity running a computer!

Why not do both, I do! As a matter of fact, I carry mine in the field.
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#15 howah

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:02 PM

im taking the palm pda out this year, it has that free ballistic program pocket ssf along with my nikon 800 rangefinder, taped ballistic chart in moa, gps, and wind measuring tool.

#16 Desert Fox

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:05 PM

Sounds like a plan! Make sure you chronograph your load and practice with it. Computer can be a liability if you don't use them correctly. Remember, "garbage in, garbage out". Make sure your scope has MOA dial not inches. You need to verify this at the range. Do a box test to make sure your crosshair is not wondering around and goes back to zero each time. Try investing on Tactical scopes if you want to play the clicking game. They're more precise and has more clicks available for those extreme long range shot. Once you tried them, you can't go back. http://www.perry-systems.com/
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#17 Shoot-it

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:00 PM

Iam confused so what books explains this stuff.

#18 Desert Fox

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

Read here:http://www.nennstiel...llfly/index.htm
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#19 Mayhem

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 07:48 AM

One scope I don't see that often but I hear allot of good things about is the Horus Hawk 3-12x50 Non-Illuminated Hunting Scopehttp://www.horusvision.comIt's a FFP milrad Reticle With and additional (IAO) Range Finder I think it has .1 milrad adjustment Turrets (I don't think they are marked like a Tactical Turret Horus relies on the reticle more then adjustments and is ment to be zeroed once then you use the reticle). It comes with a range card and Software.Horus Vision is best known for their reticles. Even other high scope manufactures LIKE US Optics Use their reticles. their reticles are one of the best for hold over and Kentucky windageAs far quality goes it's a lower mid range scope with a 1 year warranty costing about 500 bucks . Son't expect 1500+ dollar lifetime warranty quality from it.Another Scope is the Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP This is more traditional mildot FFP tactical scope. Again its in the lower mid range quality. IT has the choice of 2 reticles an ml16 and enhanced mildot. I think it has a 5 year warranty. and cost about 350-400 bucks. http://www.falconoptics.com
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#20 homemade

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 08:38 AM

Man I see I have a lot of learning to do.




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