16 replies to this topic

[fireboy]

I need some helpfull comments here.I want to use a Turkey chock tube for coyotes on my 780 Express Super Mag.In my search I found this choke at Midsouth Shooters Supply:https://www.midsouth...m...s&submit=GO"HUNTER SPECIALTIES UNDERTAKER HEVI SHOT TURKEY CHOKE TUBE REM 12 GAUGE BLUEDFINISH 3" For use in Remington 12 gauge models 1187, 1100 and 870 shotguns.Features blued finish,3 Inch long tube, double knurled end for easy removal.Fits all 2-3/4", 3", & 3-1/2" guns.For use with Hevi-Shot, Bismuth andTungsten. Inside Diameter .675"Whats bothering me is the "3 inch" length. Is that feasible? What problems can that "3" length pose?I just never heard of a choke being that long before.I'll be back late tomarrow to see your comments. Thanks in advance for educating me, I have learned alot form this forum.BTW. I also search Remington.com, Remingtons 2009 catalog, and google with no results of any kind!

[Yodel Dog]

A "Turkey" choke has a tighter constriction than a Full choke, .675" vs. .694".Choke, in reality is a bore-obstruction. As the pellets go through the choke, the pellets at the front slow down while the pellets at the rear continue at full speed until they reach the choke. This action leads to pellet deformation and stress on the barrel.The longer choke tube does two things: It lengthens the time it takes to constrict the pellets, thus reducing pellet deformation.It puts more of the constricted portion of the choke outside the barrel, which reduces barrel stress.

[bzzrd feedr]

+1 of what Yodel said. The 3 inch choke will protrude out from the end of the barrel about an inch and is knurled which allows you to change the choke without a wrench. Stock chokes are usually around 2 inches and when screwed in are flush with the end of the barrel usually depending upon brand of gun.

[sum-rifle]

A "Turkey" choke has a tighter constriction than a Full choke, .675" vs. .694".Choke, in reality is a bore-constriction. As the pellets go through the choke, the pellets at the front slow down while the pellets at the rear continue at full speed until they reach the choke. This action leads to pellet deformation and stress on the barrel.The longer choke tube does two things: It lengthens the time it takes to constrict the pellets, thus reducing pellet deformation.It puts more of the constricted portion of the choke outside the barrel, which reduces barrel stress.

Fixed it for you. A bore obstruction is a very bad thing.

[Yodel Dog]

Fixed it for you. A bore obstruction is a very bad thing.

Thanks sum-rifle for double checking my work, but obstruction is what I meant.While choke is a constriction, the constriction IS the obstruction and needs to be treated as such. This obstruction slows down the pellets in the front while the rear pellets continue at speed. Because of this, warning are issued on ammunition boxes and owners manuals:~ use steel shot in barrels with chokes no tighter than lead modified.~ use Foster type slugs in barrels in barrels with chokes no tighter than Cylinder.~ do not use steel shot in flush fitting "Thin Wall" choke tubes.~ etc. etc.Pellet deformation occurs when acceleration begins (the wad absorbs the brunt of the abuse), and also when the pellets hit the choke. Copper-plated shot is harder and helps lessen the amount of deformation. Steel is considerably harder and does not give, bulging barrels and choke tubes when the obstruction is reached.Thanks, Kevin

[fireboy]

Thanks all, for educating me on chokes, I had no idea of so many thingsthat were involved with chokes. Many "Thanks" again.

[sum-rifle]

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary.........I try to not argue on the internet. I think that is sort of silly. I do think that an obstruction in a barrel is very bad and to me means a complete blockage. A constriction in my opinion is exactly what a shotgun choke does. It tightens things up a bit but does not totally block things. I have seen barrels that had obstructions, they are no longer in use because they blew up. We can disagree on this one.DuaneobstructionOne entry found.Main Entry: ob·struc·tion Pronunciation: \əb-ˈstrək-shən, äb-\ Function: noun Date: 15331 a: the state of being obstructed ; especially : a condition of being clogged or blocked b: an act of obstructing2: something that obstructsconstrictionOne entry found.Main Entry: con·stric·tion Listen to the pronunciation of constrictionPronunciation: \-ˈstrik-shən\ Function: noun Date: 15th century1 : an act or product of constricting 2 : the quality or state of being constricted 3 : something that constricts

[Yodel Dog]

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary.........I try to not argue on the internet....and to me means a complete blockage.obstruction ~ One entry found.ob·struc·tion ~1 a: the state of being obstructed ; especially : a condition of being clogged or blocked b: an act of obstructing2: something that obstructs

Relatively clear: "something that obstructs"!!!Either fully (...and to me means a complete blockage.) or partially, "something that obstructs" is an obstruction.The reason "I have seen barrels that had obstructions, they are no longer in use because they blew up." is because of pressure the barrel could not handle.Choke in a shotgun is an obstruction as much as rifling is an obstruction in a rifle. How this pressure is treated decides how well the barrel fares.If an object(bullet, shot) cannot move freely down the bore, is it or is it not obstructed??.. the answer is YES, obstructed.

[clampdaddy]

I'm gonna have to agree with Sum on this one. A choke is there to constrict (squeeze) the shot charge not obstruct (get in the way of) it. You can't drop a wad down a shotguns bore but that doesn't mean that the bore is obstructed. Now if a shot charge was in fact seriously over constricted to a certain point, the charge itself would become an obstruction to the gasses that are pushing it down the bore.

[Yodel Dog]

Now if a shot charge was in fact seriously over constricted to a certain point, the charge itself would become an obstruction to the gasses that are pushing it down the bore.

The shot charge is already an obstruction. By design the projectile IS the weak link or release valve. As the gunpowder burns and builds up gas pressure, the projectile moves and releases the pressure. If the pressure is not released the barrel can burst.If there was nothing to obstruct the free movement of the projectile, gas pressure would only build until the projectile left the case, then vent and dissipate with no continuing pressure to increase velocity.Because of the operating pressures of different cartridges, the rifleman will see the results way sooner than the shotgunner. The rifle reloader is constantly looking for pressure signs. Because rifling is an obstruction, the reloader will work up a load that uses this obstruction to increase velocity. BUT must do so in a manner that releases pressure before excess pressure damages the projectile or firearm.The trap shooter tries to release pressure in order to reduce recoil and not damage pellets. A "long forcing cone", "back-boring" and longer choke tubes are designed to remove some of the obstacles that hamper the free movement of the wad and accompanying shot.Choke IS a constriction. It is also an obstruction. As was stated, "if a shot charge was...over constricted..., the charge itself would become an obstruction". The choke obstructs the shot charge and the shot charge obstructs the "gasses that are pushing it down the bore".Using sum-rifle's definition of obstruction: "something that obstructs"Going a bit further, the definition of ~ obstruct: To impede, retard, or interfere with; hinder

[clampdaddy]

By the way you use the word obstruction, pretty much everything is an obstruction. An over bored barrel with no choke would an obstruction, the reciever housing is an obstruction, the stock is an obstruction, hell even the chair you are sitting on is an obstruction because it keeps you from falling to the ground. Chokes and rifling are not obstructions because they are there by design. If you drive your car down a flat road and then come to a small hill, even though it spent some of the cars inertia to get over it, you did not just run into an obstruction in the road. If you then drove down another flat road that had a pile of dirt, gravel, "2x"4s, etc. on it that is just as high as the hill on the last road, you now have an obstruction in the road.A tight pattern is not made by "obstructing" the shot column. If it took 35 pounds to manually shove a wad thru a choke do think you would get the same pattern as a cylinder bored barrel that had an actual obstruction in the muzzle that required an equal amount of pressure to overcome it? Heck no. If the barrel survived, the pattern would be much larger and uniformity would be laughable. Tell you what, look thru as many choke tube catalogues you can find and show me one that sells their choke tubes by various levels of "obstruction".

[Yodel Dog]

1) ...hell even the chair you are sitting on is an obstruction because it keeps you from falling to the ground.2) Chokes and rifling are not obstructions because they are there by design.3) A tight pattern is not made by "obstructing" the shot column.4) Tell you what, look thru as many choke tube catalogues you can find and show me one that sells their choke tubes by various levels of "obstruction".

1) Yes yes yes.2) Because it's designed that way, the definition is void?3) Exactly how it works.4) Not one! Obstruction is a "bad" word to shooters, the product must be associated with "good" not "bad". But there are numerous warnings about the proper use of choke tubes. Incorrect usage leads to damage.

[clampdaddy]

1. If you wanted to fall to the ground and landed on a chair then the chair becomes an obstruction, otherwise when used as intended/designed it is just a chair2. Yes, go back and re-read my example of design vs. obstruction. Can you honestly tell me that you believe a smooth transitioned gradual hump in a paved road is an obstruction just like a same sized pile of dirt and gravel on a perfectly flat road.? If you took a choke tube out of the muzzle and dropped it down the chamber it would then become an obstruction. On the other hand I would agree 100% with you that the bolt, breach block, or mechanical safety of a firearm is in fact an obstruction, and they are so by design.3. Go back to my example of constriction vs. obstruction and explain how those guns would pattern. One with a constriction that requires 35 lbs for a wad to pass and one with an obstruction that requires the same amount of force.4. You are partially right. You wont find a single one listing varying degrees of obstruction but not because it's a bad word to use, it's because it is the wrong word to use.

[Yodel Dog]

I enjoy a good discussion. Really I do. This one is getting tougher and tougher for me to follow. The topic of choke tubes has turned into a discussion of piles of dirt and gravel, putting choke tubes in chambers, flat roads, roads with hills, more flat roads, calling dictionary definitions wrong, piles of 2x4's, falling on chairs, automobile inertia and transitioned gradual humps.I yield. You win.

[clampdaddy]

How 'bout we just agree to disagree.

[Yodel Dog]

Works for me!

[bzzrd feedr]

Thanks Guys. I was getting cornfused.