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#1 Mayhem

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:11 PM

I've got a glock 27. I'm thinking of adding a manual safety to it.either a Cominolli Custom frame mounted safety.or a Siderlock system is a safety-equipped trigger.any one ever seen these or have one, if so any comments.
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#2 Heywood

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 05:22 AM

I guess I need to ask why do you feel you need to do this? There's 2 places a gun belongs, in the holster or in your hand because you need to use it. Unless you're going carry gangsta style or pull a Plaxico and can't keep your finger off the trigger, it won't fire.If you feel you need a thumb safety on a Glock get an XD, 1911 or some DA variant with a decocker. This isn't a flame but IMO it's an answer to a non-existent problem.

#3 Mayhem

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:26 AM

1) Because I don't typically holster my Firearm when I'm running around the house. 2) I don't like carrying a weapon in condition 0. I prefure condition 1 (single action) or condition 2 (double action da/sa). right now I have to carry my glock in condition 3.I'm willing to trade my glock 27 for a sig p239 .40 8)I would like to point out a few things. I never ever carry a firearm in condition 0. Condition 0 is cocked loaded and ready to fire with all manual safeties if it has any are disengaged. I'm using Jeff Cooper's condition of readiness levels for the SOA m1911 auto. Although the work slightly differently to SA/DA and more so with DOA firearms it still applies. Condition 0 magazine loaded in the firearm , Chamber loaded, firearm fully cocked (hammer up), all manual safeties disengaged. Ready to fire all you have to do is squeeze the trigger. Does not apply to DOA auto's or DOA revolvers as they cannot be in this condition.Condition 1 Magazine loaded in the firearm, Chamber loaded, firearm fully cocked (hammer up) manual Safeties engaged. Does not apply to DAO firearms, firearms without manual safeties, or firearms with decocking safeties.Condition 2 Magazine loaded in the firearm, Chamber loaded, Hammer down. Does not apply to firearms that cannot be decocked. there is a light defrence in readiness between DA/SA and DAO firearms from SAO firearms in this level. DA/SA and DAO are still in a readiness level to be fired simply by pulling the trigger like a condition 0 firearm however Double Action requires more power and travel to fire vs SAO. and the external hammer gives you a visual que as to your readiness level. It is still condition 2 as many DA/SA firarms can still hit condition 1 and condition 0. Condition 3 Magazine loaded in the firearm, Chamber unloaded. you must charge the weapon (rack the slide) in order to make the weapon fire. does not apply to revolvers as revolvers use a cylinder with multiple chambers rather then magazine. this is the lowest readiness level you can use and still be able to fire the firearm in a timely manor. Condition 4 unloaded. No rounds in the firearm. practically renders a revolver as useless as it takes far to long to load the firearm and get it ready to fire.Ready to Fire is the condition the firearm is in that only requires the shooter to squeeze the trigger to fire the firearm. SAO firearms are only able to be ready to fire in condition 0 as most SA/DA firearms can be ready to fire in condition 0 and 2. DAO firearms can only be ready to fire in condition 2.my Glock can only be in conditions 0 3 or 4. My Sigs can only be in conditions 0 2 3 and 4. I normally carry SAO auto's in condition 1, SA/DA, DAO firearms and SAO revolvers in Condition 2. The glock does cannot go into either condition. If I add a manual safety I can put the Glock in Condition 1
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#4 autocrosser78

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:52 AM

As a Glock certified armorer I think you are mistaken in the different conditions your glock can achieve. The Glock is a double action only pistol muck akin to a Sig Sauer with the DAK trigger. The Glock therefore has a long deliberate pull unlike the short crisp single action pull of the 1911 syle semi auto. I guess all is up to the end user if you are not comfortable with the glock then by all means don't use it. But I would not ad any additional mechanical items to a firearm that was not designed with those changes. If Glock wanted there to be some sort of additional safety then they would have put one into the design.

#5 Heywood

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:31 AM

...The Glock is a double action only pistol muck akin to a Sig Sauer with the DAK trigger. ...

Oh contraire! The Glock isn't a double action... It's a "Safe Action". And you call yourself a Glock Armorer! :good: I just love marketing... :lol:The other mod out there that I shake my head at is "Turn your Glock trigger into a 1911 feel" :good:

#6 autocrosser78

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:35 AM

Well, I will agree to disagree because although they call it safe action in advertising during the armorers course they disclose that it is a double action trigger pull. The trigger pull completes two functions- 1st it completes the cocking of the striker then it releases the striker from sear engagement....double action. :good:

#7 Cranky Farmer

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:46 PM

But I would not ad any additional mechanical items to a firearm that was not designed with those changes.

I think that's excellent advice.

#8 Mayhem

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:07 PM

I didn't ask if I should put a safety on MY glock. I asked if anyone knew anything about the safeties I'm considering installing on MY glock. And I'm sorry Glock is a Single action only firearm regardless of what glock wants to call it. Put a NY trigger on it and it's just a Single action only with a really heavy trigger pull. The trigger does not FULLY cock the gun like a true DAO or DA/SA or work the action. its always in a state to fire and is unable to be decocked without emptying the chamber and pulling the trigger. As soon as you rack the slide on a glock you have cocked it, this is the only way to cock a glock as there is no external hammer to pull back. So I think I'm dead on with the Conditions it can do. If a glock was a double action only You would be able to repeatedly fire it on a bad round as you can with any double action or double action only Auto. However on a glock if your round is a dud your only option is to wait and eject it. thus making it a single action. This would be akin to a 1911 that had a sealed or internal hammer that you could not pull back or manually cock without racking the slide.Either Its going to get a safety or I'm gunna get rid of it and get a p239 as the glock is useless as carry gun to ME as it is.People mod there guns all the time specially the 1911's all I want is one single manual safety so I can carry it in condition 1. If I can't do that then I will get rid of it and get a Something that I can carry in condition 1 or condition 2
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#9 autocrosser78

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 01:52 AM

Well since you put it as you did and you are dead set on your definitions of what is Single action and what is double action I will not argue the point...if you really want to ad a safety though I would most likely opt for the frame mounted safety as I believe the Sliderlock puts a persons finger where it within the trigger guard prior to when it should be. I have not had any experience with the Frame mounted safety but I have held and manipulated the sliderlock.I just really don't see the bad thing with the way everyone that I know carries a Glock (myself included)...round in the chamber ready to go. You will not get any argument on the sig 239 I love that gun as well. it is just heavier. The SAS version is really nice and the bobbed hammer DAK trigger is excellent.

#10 Mayhem

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 07:14 PM

For all intentions I'm considering it single action because unlike a DA/SA or a DAO autoloader you cannot continuously work the firing pin by pulling the trigger after the first time on a dry chamber or dud round. You need to work the action so if you have a DUD or delayed round that round gets ejected. The same goes for SAO autoloader like the 1911 but since they have an exposed hammer you can still cock the gun. on a glock you have to work the action to cock it. a DA/SA and DAO do not need to be cocked at all as by pulling the trigger works the hammer. I've never been a big fan of the SIG DAK trigger I prefure the classic DA/SA or the DA/SA SRT.I'm thinking the same thing about the siderlock. I don't like the idea of something sticking out from the trigger that can snag it is cheap and does not void the warranty. Nice thing about the frame mounted I want is it will not void my warranty either but it cost more and actually physically modifies my frame.Guess I'm going to go for a Frame mount.
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#11 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 08:21 PM

So, how do these compare to a Springfield XD? It has a grip safety as well as a trigger safety but NO manual safety. I would think that if the Glock's were unsafe, they would have redesigned them or replaced them with something safer. I prefer the FEEL of the XD over Glocks and I REALLY like NOT having a Manual safety. Just not something I'm used to (my Taurus PT145 has a Manual Safety and it is just another step I'm not used to when drawing). I also believe in having one in the pipe while carrying. Otherwise, it's just a paperweight.
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#12 Mayhem

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 09:15 PM

It's not about the gun being Unsafe. all guns need some sort of interaction to go off. It's how easy it is to have a brain fart that leads to an accident that is my concern. My Sigs (P229, P220) have no manual safety and I never really carried my Beretta m9 (Army), Berretta 92sf, My smith 411, my Taurus 92 with the safeties on but they all have one thing going for them a Double action first shot. I never carried them with the hammers cocked that often (and only when they had a manual safety like the Taurus) .Most could not be carried in any of my safariland SS3 holsters with the hammer cocked. When I carried a 1911 I carried it cocked and safetied. my first Taurus I borrowed from Ed Lacy why back in the early 90's when I left active duty with the army. It had a standard safety I could carry it cocked and safetied (Condition 0) or hammer down with the safety on or off (Condition 2) I carried it as a service pistol for about 6 months. The only thing that made me nervous was decocking it. I replaced it with the newer Taurus 92 that had the dual safety/decocking lever. Each of the guns I have owned had features that I liked and disliked. Personally I favor a DA/SA autoloader that has an external Hammer and a Decocking Lever. However Levers and hammers have one minor disadvantage they can hang up on clothing, making them harder to carry concealed.I do not carry handguns in condition 0. To date I have never had an accidental discharge. condition 0 means you only need one brain fart to accidentally go boom. a double action first shot means you have to have a bigger stronger brain fart to accidentally go boom A manual safety means you have to have 2 brain farts.Almost all the people I have personally known that have had accidental discharges did it with Glocks and 1911's (the 1911's is was almost always a case of manually decocking it that lead to the accidental discharge - they had there hands on the grip safety and let the hammer slip while pulling the trigger).I don't like the Springfield XD (far several reasons relating to personal preference) and I don't like the Sigma. Again these are personal preference My favorites are SIG's p series, H&K's USP, 1911's and Smith big revolvers in that order.
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#13 Yodel Dog

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 09:51 PM

Have you considered the NY trigger spring for the Glock. It will make it more like a DA gun. A lot less money than an after-market safety but is approved by the factory.I'm using the NY trigger spring with the 3lb connector, factory says use 5lb connector. An AD would be hard to accomplish. I know this is not a manual safety, but a concern would be changing the factory design of the basic firearm.

#14 Mayhem

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 11:09 PM

I've thought about it. but every fallow up shot would have the same trigger pull. I'm comfortable with condition 1 carry as I have carried the 1911 until it was replaced by the m9. I haven't heard any bad things about the frame mounted safety infact last I heard is glock gave it a thumbs up and it does not void the warranty. I may consider a NY or modified NY but I like the ease of pull the glock has now. I'd like to hear from people that have the frame mount or siderlock safeties or have considered them first before I decide what to do with my glock. I may just end up getting rid of it for a p239 .40.Most People that have has a AD with glocks was either holstering or unholstering their glock or holding the glock while doing to many things at once. In all the people that I have personally known to have had an AD with a glock where exactly that.Two things I believe that leads to accidental discharges are 1) inexperience and 2) over confidence or getting way to comfortable with your firearm. Just like with power tools people loose their respect for it and forget that it can kill. One thing I would like to point out I have trained with glocks, fired allot of glocks but I have never ever carried a glock until now. Infact all the handguns I have carried have had exposed hammers. Nearly all firearms I have carried except one, the 1911, have been DA/SA either DA/SA auto loaders or DA/SA revolvers. I normally use a holster.My biggest concern however is I'm married and have 4 kids one of them is 21 months old. Just the mere thought of having a Boo Boo or my 21 month old getting a hold of my handgun scares the bejesus outa me. my 9 YO 14 YO and 16 YO all know better. I've taught them to have a healthy respect for firearms and they know what to do if they come across one and my 14 YO duaghter is very very good with my sig p229 40. But if I have an accident every one in my household is at risk.
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#15 Mayhem

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 03:41 PM

Well I got rid of it. Guess I'll be looking for another ultra compact .40
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#16 Cranky Farmer

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 04:20 PM

What made you change your mind?

#17 Mayhem

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 03:36 AM

What made you change your mind?

There were allot of factors.first was watching my youngest son squirt himself in the face with his older brothers squirt gun.All of my kids learned about guns at a young age. Our first rule was NO TOY GUNS! until they learn what a real gun is, what it can do, how to tell the deference from a toy and what to do if the find a real gun. This worked great as my daughters never wanted toy guns and do rather well with the real thing. My oldest son however being a boy HAD to have toy guns like nerf guns and squirt guns. Unfortunately thanks to my oldest son letting his little brother play with his toys this cycle is broken. My youngest boy is very strong for his age. He is also defiant, ornery, curious and fearless. He likes to try and pick my pockets, grab onto my belt, and run off with my stuff. my glock looked and felt like a toy compared to my Sigs. My glock also has no safeties, no exposed hammer and I do not like to carry a gun around in condition 0. So for all intents and purposes I could not Use the glock as my Primary HD and CC pistol so it ended up sitting in my gun safe rendering it practically useless. Getting a Safety put on it was expensive and a pain. We look at people who have firearms accidents as stupid and think it can't happen to us, but to error is human and we are all human. So the best way to prevent an accident is to remember it can Happen to you - all it takes is one slip up, and take precautions accordingly to prevent said slip up. If I ask someone about putting a safety on a glock I either get a big "I don't know" or a run across a die hard glock fan boy who wants to talk down to me like I don't know jack about firearms. So simply very very few people have put a manual safety on a glock. There are probably more people who have had accidental discharges with a glock then have put a safety on one. I know allot of people that have had Boo-Boos with Glock even professionals like law enforcement, security and military personnel. I know of no one personally that has put a manual safety on a glock.Essentially I had a very good CC pistol but it had some issues I just can't live with. 1) No manual safety, no external Hammer, light trigger pull, IT IS a Single action only Auto.2) barrel has a polygonal (hexagonal) bore and a chamber that does not fully support the case. Which means no non-jacket Lead bullets. no Copper wash bullets. No high pressure ammo. Glocks are known to occasionally fire out of battery, and Some have been known to blow up when not using proper ammo (factory only ammo).3) Warranty only allows factory ammo. using reloaded or hand loaded ammo voids your warranty.I'm far more limited on ammo selection then say my sig p229.I would not have normally purchased a Glock in the first place. A friend of mine got into some financial trouble and liquidated nearly all of his firearms leaving himself pistoless and practically nakid when it comes to self defense. I purchased most his firearms from him including the glock. He was really really desperate to get his glock back and I was desperate to replace a crappy TV. So I sold it to him for $200 bucks and a $400-$500 you can't get it anymore Big Flat screen tubed TV set. I gave him my old TV because it was better then throwing it away.Now I'm in the market for an Ultra Compact .40 S$W built for CC. I want it to have a hammer and a frame mounted decocking safety, frame mounted safety/decoker, or frame mounted deckocking lever.I still have my sig p220st .45 and sig p229 .40 I'm thinking of getting a sig p239 .40
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#18 T44

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:01 AM

I like an on-off switch on an autoloader. The Glock with a manual safety is a great gun, freed from being strictly an in-the-holster gun. Greatly extends its utility. A friend has one, after he modified a Cominolli. For him it stuck out too far and was WAY too easy to switch back and forth. But that was 5 years ago, so maybe they are better now. Don't know about the Siderlock but it looks interesting. Might try one on a 10mm woods gun. -------

#19 BigMatt

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 04:20 PM

The fact that the Glock is so simple is almost like a safety in itself. I would not change it for anything. If I want to carry around a handgun with a safety my 1911 is hard to beat.

#20 Mayhem

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 07:32 PM

Mute point I ditched the glock. I'm looking at getting a few wheel guns and a Sig p239 .40 All my auto's will be sigs unless I pick up a Kimber 10mm. I still have my preban Sig p229 .40 and my Sig p220st .45
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#21 Desert Fox

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 09:03 PM

I wish I could bring one of my brother masterpiece from PI to here. Here's a sample, a hybrid pistol. The bottom is highly modified Para-Ordinance ala STI. The slide is STI. The handmade grip is a rare exotic wood. My brother did all the work.Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImageHe'll be visiting me next year and I'm planning to have him built me several 1911. I need a shop though that will allow him to work on the pistol.
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#22 ShooterJohn

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:50 AM

He'll be visiting me next year and I'm planning to have him built me several 1911. I need a shop though that will allow him to work on the pistol.

You mean work on or modify a 1911 that you already own I hope. It would be illegal if he manufactured the whole pistol as he does at home.

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#23 Desert Fox

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 01:30 PM

You mean work on or modify a 1911 that you already own I hope. It would be illegal if he manufactured the whole pistol as he does at home.

Of course John. My plan would be to purchase a frame or a basic 1911 and have him fully customized it just to my liking.
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#24 ShooterJohn

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 01:40 PM

I thought so. But him being an extremely talented person I thought I should mention it. That's quite a talent in itself.

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#25 Desert Fox

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:27 PM

I wish I have half of his talent. I blame it on Mom and Dad :harhar1[1]: If you noticed the Para- semilarity stop at the hi-cap mag handle. He fattened the metal forward of the trigger guard and reshaped it to complement the STI slide. The snake skin pattern is his own design. This is one of a kind pistol. You won't find anything like it anywhere. A couple of his gun made it to World Shoot and one, a highly modified STI, came back with with a title from South Africa in 02, shot by a Female Competitor from the Philippines.
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