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#1 Stiff Neck

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 09:29 AM

What products do you use for bore cleaners? I've been using Shooter's Choice liquid for the past year but I rarely see any blue on the patches in any of my rifles. So either it's not removing much copper, or possibly NONE of my barrels have any copper fowling. :lol: That's not likely, so I'm ready to move on to another brand. Unfortunately, none of the stores I go to carry Sweets or Butch's or that foam stuff.

#2 ShooterJohn

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 09:35 AM

I've been using Shooter's Choice liquid for the past year but I rarely see any blue on the patches in any of my rifles. So either it's not removing much copper, or possibly NONE of my barrels have any copper fowling. :lol:

You can order Wipe-Out on-line from the manufacturer. But you can buy Butches from Sinclair or I think Midway carries it. Sweets is always good to have for stubborn fouling or just to check. You can get it on-line too. I don't use a brush on any of my barrels. A nylon would be okay I guess. But if you use a brass brush with any of the copper removers you will always show copper on your patches because it is eating the brush.Bottom line is you need a copper remover and those are the Best and I've tried them all. :)

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#3 coolvarmint

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 04:01 PM

Agree with John, Foam out is great. I put it in as soon as Im done shooting. Dont always want to clean immediately so this buys me a day. I use shooters choice also. Ive heard good stuff about Kroil. Might be getting some soon to try. I normally dont us a brush either. If you a good carbon cleaner and leave it in a bit I think it does a great job. Scott

#4 ShooterJohn

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 04:08 PM

I like and use Kroil but it isn't a substitute for a copper remover. Shooter Choice is a good general cleaner for removing carbon but it won't touch the copper fouling of a fast shooting gun. Everybody should just buy Butches or get a bottle of Sweet's it will last forever and it really gets the copper out. Just don't go off and leave it in your barrel for more than 20 minutes. :lol:

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#5 Stiff Neck

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 07:00 PM

I just did a bunch of reading on 6mmBR.com from "experts" on the topic of bore cleaning. These guys are some of the big name shooters and barrel makers in the US and Europe and their opinions are as diverse as anything. Half of those guys swear by brushes, the other half would rather die than let a brush touch their bore except an occasional nylon brush. Half of the brush users won't let the brush exit the muzzle end, the other half go in and out with the brush. A few guys have cited personal stories of ruining a new barrel after as little as 10 passes thru the bore with JB bore paste and others with Rem Clean. Other shooters use it all the time/every time on their bores especially in the throat. Some guys clean every 10-15 shots, others don't clean for 150 and still win national events and set records. Some say you must clean the bore down to the bare metal and other say you gotta leave some fowling in there for lubricant.So I guess if the experts can't even come to a general agreement on the best way to clean a barrel, how the heck am I supposed to figure it out? I suppose I will use a brush only occasionally, and just use patches and liquid bore cleaners for most of the time. But I do neet something stronger than Shooter's Choice because it's not getting much copper out.

#6 ShooterJohn

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 08:24 PM

Ben, I don't like a brush but then I don't have a custom barrel either. Some manufacturers void their warranty if you use a brush. I've just found using Butch's and occasionally some Sweet's I don't need a brush. I really like Wipe-Out but if you're in a hurry it won't work even with the accelerator. As long as my guns keep tight groups I'll keep doing what I'm doing. You need more than the Shooter's Choice that's for sure. :lol:

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#7 Shoot-it

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 08:44 PM

Since i bought that AR i have been using break free and it seems to clean well it also works good on my semi shotgun and its good to use as a lube ,but i still use hoppes 9 for running patches threw the bore.I want to try out sweets you guys talk very highly about it.I think I will stop using a brush too clean the bores I never liked doing that i always think I am doing damage too it. What about bore snake is that good enough too use too clean the bores and not run a patch?????

#8 ShooterJohn

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:04 AM

Shoot-it you do need a copper remover because Breakfree and Hoppes won't remove copper fouling. Be careful with Sweets in any gun because you have to get it all out of the barrel or action if you get it in there too. I don't care for bore snakes because you are dragging a dirty item back through you gun time and again. A good bag of patch material is a much better choice for removing fouling of any kind. A good bore guide is also a must when cleaning any gun. I have a few from Sinclair that fit 90% of my guns. I have a solvent port that fits into the end of them so I don't drip solvents onto my stocks too. That way using a cleaning rod is less messy. Using Wipe-Out I use a short length of surgical tubing that I force into the guns chamber before squirting the foam through the barrel. That way it doesn't leak into the action of the rifle. Oh, and always keep the muzzle pointed somewhat downhill so as the foam melts it drips out of the bore. I set an old dinner plate under the muzzle to catch the foam as it drips out. Then a couple of patches the next morning and I'm good to go. :angry:

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#9 bzzrd feedr

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:14 AM

I know that no two agree on how to clean a bore. I mainly use Butch's and I will use a bronze brush with it to check how the patches are getting it clean. I've never experienced the brush causing evidence of copper in the bore like ShooterJohn indicated using Butch's or Sweets. The Sweets will eat up a brush but it's a slow process, and the Butch's if you clean the brush well after doesn't do much to the brush and you can soak the barrel overnight with Butch's but not with Sweets. I also use nylon brushes sometimes. If you don't think the brush helps use just patches till you think the bore is clean, then run a wet clean brush up and down the bore a few times then follow with a wet patch. You'll be amazed how dark gray the patch is, which tells me that more cleaning is needed. The wipeout works but I haven't figured out the mess containment like John. I haven't run a brush thru a barrel that's been wipedout either which would be a good test. The boresnakes serve a purpose but they don't clean very well and you should clean it after use or as John said you're just dragging dirt thru the bore. I have to use them for my VQ's but I don't like them. A good quality bore guide is Mandatory and the solvent port is a cheap add on. Sinclair makes good ones but they are Brand and caliber specific, StoneyPoint and others make a generic bore guide. my 2 cents
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#10 Shoot-it

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:12 PM

Thanks for the tips the hoppes i use is call copper solvent is that good anough.When you say make sure you get all the sweets out is that done by running patches tell its clean?? ....... :lol:

#11 Hylander

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:31 PM

I have the Hoppes Copper Solvent and I am not impressed.That "Wipe out" is Awsome :lol:
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#12 ShooterJohn

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:39 PM

Thanks for the tips the hoppes i use is call copper solvent is that good anough.When you say make sure you get all the sweets out is that done by running patches tell its clean?? ....... :lol:

You may want to get some spray brake cleaner it's pretty cheap from the auto parts store and flush the chamber area after Sweets. Especially if you can't get into the chamber area and you aren't using a cleaning rod guide.Like Hylander said I'm not impressed with Hoppes Copper Solvent either.

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#13 Stiff Neck

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:24 PM

After thoroughly cleaning my 223 barrel with Shooter's Choice till the pathes were white, I was able to pull out a handfull of light blue patches with Sweets. Then I used a bronze brush for 3 strokes and the next patch came out with some black carbon, followed by some more light blue using Sweets. I flushed the chamber and bore with Gun Scrubber spray. So a patch and jag does not get everything out of the bore, a bronze brush helps out, and Shooter's Choice is not very effective on copper.

#14 ShooterJohn

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 06:32 AM

Ben some of that blue you got out after the bronze brush could be from the brush too. A nylon bristle brush would be a better test. But then again now that the barrel is really clean you may not have that problem again. Shooter's Choice isn't affective at all for copper fouling. But Butch's is and it works on the carbon too. I think the only one that really is affective on both is Wipe-Out but it takes time to use and can be messy. ;)Check your locate auto parts store for cans of brake cleaner spray. It can be much cheaper than Gun Scrubber and work just as well.

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#15 Braz

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 07:28 AM

Check WalMart for the carb spray too. I bought a couple of cases last year for under a buck a can. I use the heck out of that stuff.
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#16 Stiff Neck

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:07 AM

John, I ran Sweets thru the bore with just a plain patch and got blue. After that I used the Bronze brush, so that first bit of blue could not have been from the brush. I used to use carb spray too, until I read something about it having some rather unhealthy chemicals in it. Supposedly the more expensive specialized gun cleaning sprays do not have those chemicals. You can't help but get it on your hands. That's why I quit using the carb spray. Anybody know if this is true?

#17 Hylander

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:04 AM

I been using Carb spray all my life for lots of things.Ain't dead yet :) But I'm sure it ain't good for you. However I bet the Gun sprays ain't any good for you either. Probably should use gloves but I never have, I've used Carb cleaner to clean my hands, but I wouldn't recommend it :P
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#18 Stiff Neck

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:13 AM

Both types of sprays make rubber gloves tear easily. They bubble up a little and loose their elasticity. :)

#19 coolvarmint

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:42 AM

For the wipe out I just press the opening against my bore guide opening and spray then quickly put my finger over the opening until the foam is done expanding. I also place something under the barrel and let gravity help. I just leave my bore guide in the rifle. Seems pretty clean. Scott

#20 bzzrd feedr

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 08:14 AM

If you really want to get confused by the experts http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
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#21 bzzrd feedr

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 12:51 PM

OK I just did a experiment. My buddy had a 270 that Lord only knows how long it's been since it was cleaned. I took my bore scope(not really knowing what I'm looking for) and this barrel is DIRTY, so I proceed to apply Wipeout. Next day after reading instructiions I apply more Wipeout and this goes on for 5 days till the stuff coming out of the barrel didn't look so bad. Then I bring it in to the cleaning station and proceed to dry patch and wet patch using Butch's Bore Shine until I'm getting a clean patch. I get a brain storm and get the bore real wet and soak a Nylon brush and run it back and forth several times. My first wet patch after this is dark blue and it took several more patches to clear it up. I ran out of time but I may try some Sweet's to see if that gets anymore out of it. My conclusion is Wipeout might not be that great for copper fouling. The barrel looks better with the bore scope than it did but I still don't know what I'm looking for. Thought I'd pass it on. Dale
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#22 Cranky Farmer

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 02:52 PM

Thanks for the feedback, Dale.

#23 ShooterJohn

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 03:15 PM

Dale most of that problem is the layer after layer of carbon fouling over the copper. That's why you should clean the gun more often. I ran into the same problem with an old gun of my uncle's and that's what it was. :D But the Wipe-Out made it easier to clean throughly. :rolleyes:

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#24 bzzrd feedr

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 03:43 PM

I was doing a favor for my buddy, it's not my gun or it would not have been neglected for quite so long. You are right about layers of copper and carbon but I would have thought after 5 days of soaking it with Wipeout it would have cleaned up the copper. The next time I use Wipeout on my 17 Remington I'll check it after with Butch's and see because it is a copper fouler for sure.
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