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Measuring Run-out


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#1 Stiff Neck

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:04 PM

I finally setup my new RCBS Case Master Guage tool and measured some 223 cases. First I measured some WWB 45gr Varmint rounds. Bullet run-out varied quite a bit, typically .004"-.006" but a few were .012" and thereabouts. :D Then I measured my own 223 reloads and of the 25 loaded rounds I measured, all were between .0025" and .003". That's using my RCBS Rock Chucker, RCBS competition micrometer dies, 40gr V-max, and once fired Win brass full length resized. The instruction manual says anything less than .005" is fine for hunting, and anything less than .003" is fine for varmint hunting. I suppose that means I'm on the right track? Should I bother trying to reduce run-out any further by neck turning etc or is this good enough?Also, what is the correct way to measure run-out? If the dial moves a total of .003" in one full rotation of the bullet, does that mean that the actual run-out is .003"? That is what my results above show. Or do you devide that measurement by 2 since you're rotating the bullet around an axis, therefore it's really .0015" of run-out? I read on Savageshooters.com that you're supposed to devide the dial measurement by 2. ???

#2 Stiff Neck

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:59 PM

18 views and no responses, I guess this was an exeption to the "no dumb questions" rule. :D Sorry, I just haven't been able to find a whole lot about bullet run-out on the web. Just little bits here and there. A benchrest site recommended .000" to .001" for accuracy and .002" to .003" for plinking. Everything else gets thrown away.

#3 Shoot-it

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:19 PM

I am sorry i don't know squat about reloading if i did i would have replied shooterjohn would know.

#4 Stiff Neck

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:37 PM

From what I've read so far, run-out really doesn't play much of a role until you start shooting past 300-400 yards. So I guess I'm doing fine.

#5 Hylander

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 05:41 AM

Never checked runout, thats adding just alittle to much work to it for me.If I were shooting a bench compitition and had to much time on my handsthen maybe I'de worry about it.

#6 coolvarmint

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 05:55 AM

Stiff Neck, Im not sure what is a good number myself. You might try over on snipershide.com in the reloading section. There are several national level guys over there and I have seen a lot of info regarding it. Just havent paid that much attention yet. I do seat my bullets halfway then rotate them 180 deg before the final seat. Supposedly decreases runout. But Im only using a standard seater for my 204. 6mmbr.com is another good source. I think you can search both of those without being registered, but they are pretty quick to reg on also. Accuratereloading.com is good. Also long-range.com & nationalmatch.us Palma and NM guys so they have a ton of info there also. Good luck and Ill keep an eye out when surfing also. Scott

#7 ShooterJohn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 06:11 AM

I missed this yesterday or I would have answered sooner. Do I normally check run out, no. The Redding Competition dies I use are probably the very best at seating a bullet consistently straight in the case. This in turn greatly helps in reducing to the very minimum bullet run out. But most people don't want to spend the money to purchase this sort of seating die. For the sort of shooting the average person does I probably wouldn't bother with checking. I have a sweet dial indicator setup for checking bullet run out and it allows you to tweak the round to reduce or eliminate any found problems. You are correct that the more distance you add to a shot the more important this becomes. But there are so many factors leading up to this step that most people throw out the window first. So it never hurts to do a check once in awhile to see how you're doing. Or you can sort through your loaded rounds and put the best aside. But the biggest fault I see the average reloader making is in using different manufacture cases in the same batches. I also weigh my cases and sort them but most people don't. So I wouldn't worry too much about the run out until all of the other steps have been taken. Short and sweet answer is, "every little bit helps." After all the more precise your ammo is the easier it is to make that long shot consistently.

#8 Stiff Neck

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 08:19 AM

Thanks for the replies. I was gifted this RCBS Case Guage tool, so I might as well put it to use. At least it lets me know I'm not scewing up too badly! :)

#9 ShooterJohn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 08:39 AM

Thanks for the replies. I was gifted this RCBS Case Guage tool, so I might as well put it to use. At least it lets me know I'm not scewing up too badly! :lol:

I never hurts to check everything you can during the reloading process. The more precise you can be the better your reloads will turn out. :)

#10 Stiff Neck

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 08:44 AM

Here's something interesting. This is a quote from a post at 6mmbr.com from 1/31/06 in the reloading forum:* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *When checking bullet runout in loaded rounds with the referenced tool, it would appear to me that the actual bullet runout is 1/2 of the extreme spread indicated by the needle on the dial indicator. In other words, if the needle moves 4 "tick marks" (thousandths), your actual runout would be .002". Am I looking at this correctly?I did email tech support at RCBS, and my assumption was correct. Whatever "extreme spread" is indicated on the dial, your actual runout is 1/2 of that.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Wow, so my run-out is actually half what I thought it was. I'm getting .00125" to .0015" pretty consistently. That makes me feel good. :) I'm going to call RCBS just to make sure.

#11 ShooterJohn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:08 AM

That is correct because you are rotating the bullet 360 degrees so it would be half of the amount the dial moves. See it pays to purchase good seating dies.

#12 Stiff Neck

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:54 AM

Yeah, remind me to thank the guy who recommended them. :)

#13 ShooterJohn

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 10:05 AM

Thanks I'm reminded. :)

#14 Hylander

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 03:09 PM

But the biggest fault I see the average reloader making is in using different manufacture cases in the same batches

DITTO :) Second on that list is those that seat the bullet to far out of the case.The bullet needs to be seated atleast the dept of the bullet diameter.That is to say if you are seating a .224 bullet, that bullet needs to be seated at least.224 deep into the case. This will help to lessen bullet runout and start the bullet straight into the lands.Yes: Thanks John.Even though I thought I bought one of the best Die set's, (Hornady).They were over sizing my Brass, we compared them to Johns Redding dies and it is a noticable/Measurable differance. Needless to say I sold the Hornady's and bought Redding :lol:

#15 Shoot-it

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:49 PM

What is a good reloader for someone like me that wants to get into reloading?

#16 ShooterJohn

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 02:35 PM

What is a good reloader for someone like me that wants to get into reloading?

The RCBS Rock Chucker Master Reloading Kit . It has everything you'll need to start except the dies.




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