Jump to content


Photo

Winchester M70 "Coyote Lite" or Savage 12fvss


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Adam357

Adam357

    Plinker

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 32 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moreno Valley,CA

Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:30 PM

Ok I am convinced how well of shooters a Savage can be out of the box from reading numerous forums and posts. At the moment I have a Winchester "Coyote Lite" on layawy at Turners. Anyone here have any experience with the "Coyote Lite" or any of the recent issue Winchester firearms? Since I have heard of some poor machining issues from Winchester, I'm thinking of changing my tune to a Savage. Help,my head is spinning! Thanks..........Adam

#2 Hylander

Hylander

    Predator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • Location:Lincoln
  • Interests:Shooting Sports

Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:38 PM

I don't own any Winchesters, however of all the rifles I see at the rangethe Winchesters are consistantly the most inaccurate.I have yet to see a Savage not shoot less than MOA out of the box

#3 Cranky Farmer

Cranky Farmer

    smallblockfuelie

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,436 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxnard, CA

Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:44 PM

Adam, I've heard the same talk as you and Hylander. I'd go with the Savage and get that Accutrigger!

#4 Stiff Neck

Stiff Neck

    Big Shooter

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,070 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 April 2006 - 07:48 PM

You don't hear many Winchester rifle owners brag about how accurate their rifles are... There's a reason they're not very popular.

#5 Guest_coyoteslayer_*

Guest_coyoteslayer_*
  • Guests

Posted 02 April 2006 - 10:19 PM

Well I have a Winchester model 70 Stealth(22-250) and I love it. I get a dime size groups at a 100 yards. This is the only winchester that I own but I love it and I have killed a load of yotes with it and I even take the thing out and shoot squirrels with it. Knock on wood but never had a problem and I would buy another one in a heart beat.

#6 ShooterJohn

ShooterJohn

    Admin

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern, CA
  • Interests:Hunting, shooting sports and fishing.

Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:01 AM

I think the point is the workmanship at Winchester is not what it was in the earlier years. Like anything else you might get a good one like Jeff but you might get a so so one too. It's ashame Winchester can't do better because they used to be "the name" in firearms. Savage has gone the other way and is now a force to be reckoned with. They have probably the finest trigger on a stock gun and their accuracy is very well known. I have some wonderful Pre-64 Winchesters but only a couple later models. I also have some truly phenomenal Savages that I wouldn't trade for anything and they are all new models. :)

#7 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 03 April 2006 - 03:44 PM

That's a tough call, Adam....Over the years I've certainly owned my share of winchesters (along with many other brands), but as John stated, I believe they may have been better built back then ?! Especially considering all the problems they've had / have. (discontinuing their bread & butter rifle models. raises my red flag). However, a friend & I purchased our latest Winchesters approx 4 yrs ago(?), both 22-250's in model 70, coyote brands. They are both tack drivers with their original barrels. I've since put a custom Douglas barrel on mine so is no longer a valid comparison on off the shelf rifles. It is now scarey accurate. LOL (I shoot a lot more than my friend does).I have seen some bad print about Winchesters, including the coyote rifle, and I am sure people were not making it up. But what percentage of the "lemons" there were I have no idea & is probably hard to say. And with any production made product, there are going to be a certain amount of lemons.Even though I LOVE my current Winchester, I really am not a fan of Winchester per say. (I am a Rem fan). So, I personally would not go with the Win lite rifle. But that's just me! You like Chevy, I like Ford.Anway, I do like Savage, (especially their "Low Profiler") & believe you will not go wrong with the one you were considering... Good Luck in Your DecisionFrank

#8 Bozsik

Bozsik

    Big Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,518 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orangevale, CA
  • Interests:Having fun with my Wife and Kids, Hunting, Camping, Wildlife Photography, Woodworking, and Illustration.

Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:02 PM

I have a Winchester Coyote model 70 stainless with the Bull Barrel. I hunt jacks with it all of the time and it delivers excellent product for me. I have posted plenty of witnesses that would attest to this fact on this forum. . .that is if they were still alive. :D dbPosted Image

#9 Stiff Neck

Stiff Neck

    Big Shooter

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,070 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 April 2006 - 08:51 PM

What kind of barrel is that?

#10 MojaveJ

MojaveJ

    Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Delphos,KS
  • Interests:Hunting and fishing

Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:29 AM

Hmmm,You say you put a Douglas barrel on your Winchester. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Savage come stock with a Douglas barrel. Darn I get an Accu-trigger and a Douglas barrel stock for less money than a Winchester I think I know what I'm buying oops I forgot to say it'll be my third Savage.

#11 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:14 PM

Oh, but of course... my timex is made by Rolex & my BSA scope by Leupold... Makes perfect sense then, that we can buy a Savage for $500 with Douglas Premium barrels on them. What was I thinking? (savage makes their own barrels btw / just call them). Triggers?? Winchester is the EASIEST trigger on the planet to adjust and won't have any CREEP when finished. Will Savage?? So you can have an excellent Winchester trigger for FREE. Also, some look at buying a Winchester as a "collectable" item, especially if they never return to the market. So WIN, not Savage would be the better buy in other words for that reason exclusively.Frank p.s. Stiff Neck, those barrels in the picture are Winchester's own stainless barrels that come standard on their now discontinued model 70 coyote rifle. That is the same rifle I have mentioned above, but now wears a douglas barrel.

#12 Shoot-it

Shoot-it

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:CA

Posted 04 April 2006 - 01:32 PM

Oh man we have a fight going on!! :lol: :) I just love this site you guys keep me entertained.OH yeah thats a nice looking rifle bozic I wouldn't mind having one.

#13 Bozsik

Bozsik

    Big Shooter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,518 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orangevale, CA
  • Interests:Having fun with my Wife and Kids, Hunting, Camping, Wildlife Photography, Woodworking, and Illustration.

Posted 04 April 2006 - 02:59 PM

What kind of barrel is that?

Metal! ? :) All joking aside, I am not into the stats stuff. So I can't help ya there Stiff. I think Frank is right on with the description though. As far as I know, it's the kind of barrel you don't want to be down range of if you are a varmint and I am at the other. :lol: db

#14 Adam357

Adam357

    Plinker

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 32 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Moreno Valley,CA

Posted 04 April 2006 - 03:18 PM

Thanks everyone for your response. However I am still looking for feedback from someone that has the specific "Coyote Lite". Perhaps the normal "Coyote" has similiar performance? I was told today by a Turners Shmuck that they are made by Browning?

#15 Hylander

Hylander

    Predator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • Location:Lincoln
  • Interests:Shooting Sports

Posted 04 April 2006 - 03:28 PM

Frank is right, Savage makes their own barrels. However they are also getting quite known for making one of the finest barrel's produced.Also the Accutrigger is by far the Easiest to adjust, one screw, adjust from 1.5 - 6lb.And no Creep to start with, even comes with the hexhead to adjust it. Best factory trigger I ever felt and better than most Custom triggers. Also the Savage owner can change barrels themselves in minute's with only a couple of cheap hand tool's. But I don't think the Savage will ever have the collectability of the Winny.Not nocking Winny, killed a huge Sow with a 94 at 200yds open sights :lol: Did I mention that was the first and last shot I took with that rifle ( I borrowed it).Tried tio buy it but the owner wouldn't budge :)

#16 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 04 April 2006 - 04:55 PM

I have no doubt Savage barrels are very good & accurate. But with all due respect, I doubt any more so than many other mass produced barrels. I would put some of my current rifles up against any (stock) Savage, especially from what I've seen at the range. Savage is very good, but not any better IMHO. In other words, just what is Savage doing to make their barrels better than say Remington, Browning etc? Are they using the highest grade stainless? Are they (air) guaging their barrels to the tightest tolerances? Are they tossing out barrels with curvature? Are they using pulled button or forged barrels? How often are they changing their cutters? Are they lapping their barrels? Common folks, the stuff I just mentioned above is EXPENSIVE and time consuming, & major gun manufactures are NOT going to go through this. If they did you & I would pay severely for it & there would be no need for custom barrel makers. Mass produced barrels are basically made the same. No matter their name.Now, pls do not misunderstand me. I like Savage & came within an inch of buying one a few days ago. They are a fine rifle, but no finer than many others out there. Call me a skeptic if you want...Frank

#17 ShooterJohn

ShooterJohn

    Admin

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern, CA
  • Interests:Hunting, shooting sports and fishing.

Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:31 PM

Call me a skeptic if you want...

Skeptic! :P Both of my Savage Center fires shot consistently tighter groups than my two overly priced Remington 700's in blues and stainless barrels. That's how I judge the difference. After all seeing is believing in my book. Maybe it's just that hands down better trigger on the Savage's. :lol: We agree to disagree Frank. :angry:

#18 Cranky Farmer

Cranky Farmer

    smallblockfuelie

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,436 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxnard, CA

Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:49 PM

John,After hearing all the praise you have for the Savage if and when I buy another rifle (besides the 17HMR) I am going to give them a try. I am a Remington guy just because I am stubborn and often resist change.... I am getting wiser as I get older!

#19 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 05 April 2006 - 05:48 AM

Sounds good on agreeing to dissagree, John :angry: Ya know, since we live so far apart it is highly unlikely that we could ever meet at a range for some friendly competition. You no doubt would be a formidable opponent & would be fun & challenging. So in lieu of that & the fact that we both agree on "seeing is believing", perhaps posting some our targets may be the next best thing? Whada Think? Now, remember I'm gawd awful with these computers, so may take me a couple days to get mine posted. Man, I hate that. lol Heath, may want to put a temp hold on "getting wiser". For old age sake. LOLFrank

#20 bwana

bwana

    Varmint Hunter

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 108 posts
  • Location:San Diego & Silverthorne, CO
  • Interests:I like to hunt, shoot, reload, backpack, ski, and just about anything else you can do in the mountains. I also like sailing and other ocean sports.

Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:21 AM

I've never owned a Winchester or a Remington, but I have friends with them and I've shot them and I like them, but my money goes towards Savages. I don't know about the superiority of Savage barrels to other manufacturers, but the ones I have shoot very well even with the pre-accutrigger trigger, so however they're making their rifles is working. Frank wanted to see some Savage targets so I'm posting a couple here. Both of these were shot with an older model Savage 111FC (detachable clip) in 7mm Rem Mag. I bought this gun as a "package gun" from a big sporting goods chain-store. It still has the horrible pre-accutrigger trigger and the original factory tupperware stock. I haven't done a thing to this rifle except paint the stock.Posted ImagePosted ImageThe additional benefit to a Savage is the switch-barrel capability. I own both long and short-action versions so that give me a lot of options for additional calibers down the road if I want one.Cheers,Scott

#21 Cranky Farmer

Cranky Farmer

    smallblockfuelie

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,436 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxnard, CA

Posted 05 April 2006 - 01:02 PM

LOL ... here we go!

#22 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 05 April 2006 - 03:01 PM

Not too shabby, John... No need for Hylander to back you up, I believe you... Although I can understand the back up idea, as there will always be some (meathead) that will scream foul no matter what. Uh, so that's all I have to compete against with my standard blued Rem & stainless Winchester btw? I do appreciate you taking it easy on me, John, as I wasn't looking forward to being overly embarrased by a Savage. I guess I do owe you one?! LOLOk, Heath, where are you? If I can't get my neighbor to post my targets, would you be willing? Hey, like I said, I have a love/hate relationship with these stinkin computers. Can shoot me an E mail if your willing. If not, I totally understand & no problem. Then again, no one wants to see a Savage get beat, right? LOLMay take me a little time but I WILL get them on here... Film at 11:00Frank

#23 Cranky Farmer

Cranky Farmer

    smallblockfuelie

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,436 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxnard, CA

Posted 05 April 2006 - 04:06 PM

Can do, Frank. Just e-mail them to me.

#24 Hylander

Hylander

    Predator

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 472 posts
  • Location:Lincoln
  • Interests:Shooting Sports

Posted 05 April 2006 - 04:47 PM

Have to throw up a couple.The bad thing is I sold my Savage 12FV Not as good as John's, but pretty good.100 yds.Posted ImageThis one is at 200yds. 26.5 BLC-250 V-MaxPosted ImageAnd Juleit my Mini-14100yds.Posted Image

#25 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:39 PM

Hey Heath, I just sent you an e mail... with a question / request for you... Thanks AgainFrank

#26 Cranky Farmer

Cranky Farmer

    smallblockfuelie

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,436 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxnard, CA

Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:46 PM

Frank,I got it and replied. Yes, I can do that for ya.

#27 Frank

Frank

    Big Kahuna

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,759 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Long Beach, Ca
  • Interests:Coyote Hunting #1, Valley Quail 2nd. Former (Idaho) mule deer hunter

Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:09 PM

Excellent & I'll go read your reply... I should have the pics in tomorrows mail to you... Thank You AgainFrank




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users