35 replies to this topic

[aquaelvis]

I was showing my AR to one of my brother-in-laws over the Thanksgiving weekend and had a bit of a wake up call! He was checking out the AR and in doing so dropped the mag! :WTF_1: I thought it was a mistake so I took the rifle back, replaced the mag and tried to drop the mag. It worked just like a "normal" AR! Press the bullet button and the mag pops out! I tried it a few more times, worked the same every time. I am assuming something is loose. I haven't had the time to pull it out of the safe and look at it. (I did not put the lower together) I assume it won't be a big deal to fix BUT it had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up! I keep thinking what if...I don't know when that happened, it has been in the safe for weeks. I can't imagine being out hunting with that or just driving and having a LEO (or F&G) ask to see the rifle. I can't imagine standing there and watching them drop the mag with a button! FELONYI'll post more info when I figure out what is wrong but thought I would share this now. Make sure you guys keep an eye on your BB's. Check them often.

[.22guy]

I check mine carefully everytime before I ever take it anywhere. My bullet button feels rock solid though. Was it one of the older ones maybe? I think some of the older ones didn't fit as well as newer models. Or maybe the older ones had to be filed alot in order to fit? I can't remember exactly what I read.

[wannakillacoyote]

I'm gonna assume you have the standard bullet button (that uses a little barrel nut around the threads of the mag release). My guess is the nut just worked itself loose. Try removing that barrel nut, putting a dab of red loctite in the barrel then screwing it back on. It shouldn't back out on you now (but will be a pita to get off later).If you have the Prince50 (the one with the allen bolt) get rid of it and get ya a Bullet Button. ;)Sounds like a wakeup for all of us though and I will start checking mine everytime I use it from now on.

[du9207]

wanna------->is there anything else that we can put to make sure it says there without being a pita later on to remove it?thread starter------->were you using loctite on your bullet button? or did you just screw it on and maybe it came lose? were you sticking your finger in the hole of the bullet button or just pressing the bullet button like a regular mag release button, im a little confused on that part

[grunt]

I am confused as well.....please take a photo of your BB and we'll take a looksee. No matter how hard you push on my BB, you wont be able to depress the mag ralease unless you forced it through the side of your lower. A photo will tell for sure.

[aquaelvis]

I have the standard, normal bullet button. There was no locktite used, will use it this time. You can just press the button, housing and all to pop the mag. You don't need to push hard or wiggle it or anything. Now it works like a normal mag release. I'd post a pic but it won't help. It looks like a normal BB.

[Fjold]

The base of the housing should be a press fit all the way to the bottom of the hole. It should not push in at all.

[Red Dog]

The blue loctite shouldn't be such a pita.

[camopaint]

edit or delete your post.

[.22guy]

edit or delete your post.

???

[wannakillacoyote]

edit or delete your post.

I think he is referring to the "FELONY" part of his post.Elvis did say that the AR is and has always been separated from the upper during this malfunction. As long as he didn't have the upper on, he is fine.Also, I just saw these over at calguns. It's a Bullet Button install/removal tool. These things are slick, I just ordered one. Using loctite will not be as much as a pita with these.http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=135672

[aquaelvis]

Of course I have always kept the upper off the lower. But, if people aren't very careful about the BB's they might be out in the field and have it come loose! Then you'd be walking around with a felony! That is what I want people to avoid, and pay attention to their BB's. I never really thought to check it, but now I know better.

[fakawee]

Guys! Here's what happened to the AR-15 crowd today at the range. I've always told guys not to drop their magazines from their rifles to load them. No one seems to listen to the old man! Today, the ATF was conducting some kind of inspections and guess what they saw! Let's just say that 5 guys now have confiscated AR-15's and notices to appear in court. They were caught loading their magazines unattached to their rifles!!! They all had "bullet bottons" and one guy even had a 30rd magazine he was loading. Are these guys just STUPID or what? They all had assorted tools to use in the bullet button to release their mags. I don't even carry a tool to use in the bullet button to drop my magazine. Oh, I could use the end of one of my bullets but I know the laws and it's just plain STUPID to do it at a sanctioned range like Project 2000. The ATF guys watched me separate my upper and lower several times to load my magazine while still attached. Maybe after watching me doing this, they wanted to see if the other shooters were doing the same. Oh man, now I feel like I drew attention to those guys by mistake! I just hope it doesn't bring any heat down on the range facility because a few IDIOTS decided to take matters into their own hands.

[grunt]

I will be very interested in the way this turns out......

[aquaelvis]

It will be interesting to see what happens with that. I am sure they will be contacting calguns if they are smart. I used to agree with you, no dropping the mag. But the more I thought about it, with a bullet button, even with an open mag well the rifle is still not able to accept a detachable mag. With a bullet button and an open well you have a weapon capable of accepting a non-detachable mag. Once you put a mag in a gun with a BB, is it fixed. So how would an open well be anything like being able to accept a detachable mag? Even a bad lawyer could slap a mag in the gun, hand it to the arresting officer in front of the jury and ask him if the mag was detachable. If he says yes, he would need to detach it. (but could not with a BB) If he says no, case is done. I can't see how an AR with a BB could be considered capable of accepting a detachable mag. Open or full mag well, it is the same... the only way to remove the mag is with a tool. (so not detachable) Sucks to be those guys though!

[Yodel Dog]

Today, the ATF was conducting some kind of inspections ...

ATF is "enforcing" state law??

[RobT2K]

They might have been there because P2K is remodeling their range shop and will be selling more firearms. I can't believe they got their rifles confiscated though. Have you posted anything on CalGuns about this? I think you should, just so the word gets out and these guys can get some help.

[4RHUNTS]

It will be interesting to see what happens with that. I am sure they will be contacting calguns if they are smart. I used to agree with you, no dropping the mag. But the more I thought about it, with a bullet button, even with an open mag well the rifle is still not able to accept a detachable mag. With a bullet button and an open well you have a weapon capable of accepting a non-detachable mag. Once you put a mag in a gun with a BB, is it fixed. So how would an open well be anything like being able to accept a detachable mag? Even a bad lawyer could slap a mag in the gun, hand it to the arresting officer in front of the jury and ask him if the mag was detachable. If he says yes, he would need to detach it. (but could not with a BB) If he says no, case is done. I can't see how an AR with a BB could be considered capable of accepting a detachable mag. Open or full mag well, it is the same... the only way to remove the mag is with a tool. (so not detachable) Sucks to be those guys though!

With this bullet button device installed, will the weapon/AR15, have the capacity to accept a standard AR15 magazine ??

[aquaelvis]

Yes. They take standard mags. But once you put a mag in it will not come out. You need a tool to remove it. (the head of a bullet to press into the button) With a normal AR you just push the mag drop with these you need to stick something into the mag drop, therefore making the mag "fixed" per CA law.

[4RHUNTS]

I know this has been discussed here before, but doesn't the Penal Code section state within the definition of an assault weapon, that if the weapon has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine? So, if the weapon has any of the other prohibited features and can accept a detahable mag, is it not an assault weapon as described in the Penal Code section if there is no magazine in the weapon ??I may be wrong but this reads pretty clear to me:12276.1. ( a ) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shallalso mean any of the following: ( 1 ) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity toaccept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the actionof the weapon. ( B ) A thumbhole stock. ( C ) A folding or telescoping stock. ( D ) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. ( E ) A flash suppressor. ( F ) A forward pistol grip.

[Shoot-it]

calguns explains all that it's easyer to understand if you look at there wed site. Right now the site is down I can not get on. I hope those guys at the range can get some help.

[Yodel Dog]

( 1 ) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity toaccept a detachable magazine ...

The Bullet Button converts the gun so that it accepts a NON-detachable magazine.

[wannakillacoyote]

The guy with the 30 round mags is an idiot (unless it was a registered AW, which wouldn't have been confiscated). The others, as long as they were using 10 round mags were totally legal.Fakawee, PLEASE post this info over on Calguns. They have the legal means to go after this stuff and have done so in the past. MANY gun-shops have jumped on the AR bandwagon. It used to be smallish, daring dealers selling these, but now LOTS of large gunshops are selling them. I would think IF they were illegal, they would be shutting down those gunshops.It is a bit confusing (and scary) that ATF is confiscating AR's in California. I was at my local range (5-dogs) just last weekend and both me and my dad were using our Bullet Buttons. I will go back to NOT taking my AR to the range until this current issue is figured out. I wonder under what authority the ATF has to confiscate those AR's.

[Bronco]

Yep the guy with the 30 rounder will be hosed. You can not put a BB on a registered AW. I haven't seen anything on calguns regarding this yet. I'll have to take a closer look.

[DaveL]

You can not put a BB on a registered AW.

Eh, slightly off topic, but you can put a Bullet Button on a registered Assault Weapon. There is no way to make a registered assault weapon more "assaulty". Why one would do this is way beyond me.... Neutering a rifle for the purpose of ?Now, it is true that you cannot attach a magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds in a fixed magazine rifle--- which is what a BB equipped AR-15 pattern rifle is...4RHUNTS,RE: your comment related to the wording of "detachable magazine" vs attachable, etc....I don't have the time to look up the penal code at this moment. But the code goes so far as define a fixed magazine configuration as requiring a tool + time to remove. So since time is required, and a tool is required (with a BB) it cannot be a detachable magazine rifle. (The code also goes so far to say a bullet is a tool.)Finally, DOJ BoF agent (no longer w/ DOJ) Iggy Chan testified in the Hunt case that a magazine requiring the use of a tool is not a detachable magazine. This is on the record testimony from a DoJ agent. Pretty iron clad if there is ever such a thing RE CA Penal code.Oh, btw, glad to be here and make my first post.... Now to chat some people about 'yote hunting. :-p

[fakawee]

Remind me to get the facts first next time. Here's the skinny on what happened at the range on Dec 6th. The ATF was inspecting the range facilities and noticed that 5 AR-15 shooters were unloading and loading magazines in their rifles. One was using a 30 round magazine (Big No No). He is the only one cited from what I got from the range manager. The range manager called me back late this afternoon because I was concerned (called him all day yesterday) and he knows that I use the range all the time with my AR-15's and Rem R15. The 5 guys were approached by the ATF guys who suspected them of violating a CA weapons regulation. They were held for the Sheriff's who said the other 4 guys were not in violation and they got their rifles back with no citations. Only the IDIOT with the 30 round magazine is getting the shaft.I posted the Dec 6th story because of what I immediately saw when they were taken aside by the ATF guys and what looked to me like a citation book was being written on. Sorry for getting everyones blood pressure up and I promise not to post anymore harrowing posts. I almost wrote a post for calguns, glad I took my time now.

[Fjold]

Too late, someone already cross posted it over there. You're famous now.

[ShooterJohn]

We have a celebrity among us now. All hail fakawee! Sorry but I couldn't help myself Mark.

[wannakillacoyote]

Whew! Glad to hear the ones with the BB and proper round mags were let go.I'll have to go over to calguns and see what they are saying.

[du9207]

We have a celebrity among us now. All hail fakawee! Sorry but I couldn't help myself Mark.

[list=1][/list]congrats fakawee you are the master now