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Airguns and supressors


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#1 Quade

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:38 PM

Whats the law on this.?Gamo makes the Whisper, that has a build in supressor on it..So would it be illegal to put a device or object on an airgun to make it quieter?Im pretty sure of the answer, but the Gamo Whisper makes it complacated..Whats the deal.?

#2 ShooterJohn

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:40 PM

Well it's a sort of a sticky point I guess you could say. But moderators or barrel shrouds which my newest gun has are fastened to the barrel so they can't be easily removed. They don't have quiet the same inner workings as a cartridge fired gun suppressor. Anyway you can have them so lets be happy about that. :censored[1]:

#3 Arise

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:26 PM

Quaid - I thought I would piggyback on this one rather than starting a new thread.To answer you're question I have no idea but I really like this Airgun & It's so much better than the home made lawn mower muffler supressors. :censored[1]: My buddy got one and now I really want to buy one for my daughter. .177 Cal. Spring Air Rifle. The thing shoots 1200 fps, the "Noise Dampener" on it cuts the sound in half & shoots right on the money.I just donít know too much about air rifles so I'm asking some of you that are... What do you think about this air gun? I think it's fairly new on the market so I'm not sure what kind of feedback this will get.The price tag on it is 279.00 + 10.00 for shipping if you order it through Gamo.

Anyway you can have them so lets be happy about that.

Quaid, I'm w/ SJ on this one. Here is the link...http://www.gamowhisper.com/

#4 Quade

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 07:47 AM

I was looking at that... But is it really that much quieter for the price?

#5 Camoghost

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 08:04 AM

Quaid - I thought I would piggyback on this one rather than starting a new thread.To answer you're question I have no idea but I really like this Airgun & It's so much better than the home made lawn mower muffler supressors. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow: My buddy got one and now I really want to buy one for my daughter. .177 Cal. Spring Air Rifle. The thing shoots 1200 fps, the "Noise Dampener" on it cuts the sound in half & shoots right on the money.I just donít know too much about air rifles so I'm asking some of you that are... What do you think about this air gun? I think it's fairly new on the market so I'm not sure what kind of feedback this will get.The price tag on it is 279.00 + 10.00 for shipping if you order it through Gamo. Quaid, I'm w/ SJ on this one. Here is the link...http://www.gamowhisper.com/

I have that Gamo (It's the varmint express) It took some different pellet testing to get it dialed in (which is common) I can shoot 1/4 to 1/2 inch groups @ 30 yards.. It's a killer! The scope, flash light and laser system it comes with is great fro the money. Attached File  Pelletlill.jpg   80.83KB   30 downloads

#6 Quade

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 08:11 AM

How loud is it?I was looking at getting the Gamo Big Cat 1200...Pretty much the same as the whisper... but with out the "dampener" on it... same 1200 fps..The main use for this gun is rats in the back yard... I live near the river, and the rats run along the power lines and into the attic...

#7 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 08:39 AM

Hmm, pretty cool looking airgun. I have been looking into getting a airgun after reading about the different ones CPC members have.

#8 Camoghost

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 08:51 AM

How loud is it?I was looking at getting the Gamo Big Cat 1200...Pretty much the same as the whisper... but with out the "dampener" on it... same 1200 fps..The main use for this gun is rats in the back yard... I live near the river, and the rats run along the power lines and into the attic...

It's not that loud at all. I bought mine for the same reason! The flash light works great and it's not that much louder than my old Crossman 760 pumpmaster. It smokes rats! I have alot of fruit trees in my back yard so I get a little of everything for targets :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow: The laser is not that great I have never really used it excpet to shoot paper for fun. The recoil throws it off a little every shot so I don't trust it.

#9 Jeff

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:10 AM

My buddy uses the one you're looking into also Quade. He has rats that get into his upland and waterfowl food. That Gamo is accurate. He does use the laser and has had good results. He did have troubles with the scope not staying tight, but until that happened that thing was reliable enough to use the laser and shoot from the hip if you wanted to. He used the gamo gold pellets that come with the gun with good results, but they aren't cheap. It's less loud than my Beeman.

#10 Quade

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:16 AM

Cool thanks... I should be getting it in a few weeks...And I already found a upgrade for th trigger... Thats sad, Im now customizing my airgun.... :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

#11 ShooterJohn

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 11:39 AM

Bobby, you want to find a heavier pellet for that gun and try to get the feet per second down below super sonic. That way you won't get the crack that breaking the sound barrier makes. Camoghost, you know that laser and light on that gun is illegal right? Unfortunately they sell them that way in CA but you technically can't use them. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

#12 wannakillacoyote

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:05 PM

Bobby, you want to find a heavier pellet for that gun and try to get the feet per second down below super sonic. That way you won't get the crack that breaking the sound barrier makes. Camoghost, you know that laser and light on that gun is illegal right? Unfortunately they sell them that way in CA but you technically can't use them. :harhar1[1]:

I know that mounted lights are illegal for hunting, didn't know the lasers were. Learn something new everyday. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

#13 Camoghost

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:33 PM

Bobby, you want to find a heavier pellet for that gun and try to get the feet per second down below super sonic. That way you won't get the crack that breaking the sound barrier makes. Camoghost, you know that laser and light on that gun is illegal right? Unfortunately they sell them that way in CA but you technically can't use them. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

Thanks John! That is the reason I don't use it for hunting :harhar1[1]: On a better note, my Beeman is at my house waiting for my hot little hands! The brown truck just dropped her off and I'm trapped in my #$%^ office!

#14 Quade

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 12:40 PM

Bobby, you want to find a heavier pellet for that gun and try to get the feet per second down below super sonic. That way you won't get the crack that breaking the sound barrier makes. Camoghost, you know that laser and light on that gun is illegal right? Unfortunately they sell them that way in CA but you technically can't use them. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow:

I was going to use a heaver pellet for that gun... the PBA pellets are 5.2 grains I think..I was looking more for 10.2 grains..The Beeman Crow Magnums I think they are...Im not looking for long range with this gun... But some of the rats are huge, and I want some energy behind the pellets.

On a better note, my Beeman is at my house waiting for my hot little hands! The brown truck just dropped her off and I'm trapped in my #$%^ office!

See, thats why I have my toys shipped to work...

#15 ShooterJohn

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:13 PM

My best springer rat killing machines are my Beeman R9's in both .177 and 20 cal. They both sport 4-12 power Bushnell Scopes and have the finest Reccord triggers in them. I think the .177 is really the best as it files so flat and kills rats easily out to the 50+ yards I shoot them. The .20 is better for jackrabbits and even fox. But I've killed beaver with my .177.
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#16 ShooterJohn

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 01:15 PM

Hey Rick, I stopped by and picked up your rifle for you. :smiley-innocent-halo-yellow: Just kidding.

#17 SAGITARUS

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 11:18 PM

Here's one article has to say about this issue:by Tom Gaylordexclusively for PyramydAir.com. © Copyright 2006 All Rights ReservedIn this article, I'll discuss some of the most important points about silencers. The purpose of this report is to give you the information you need to make an informed decision.The subject of airgun silencers is hotly debated on the airgun forums. There is no agreement about the legality of silencers on airguns in the U.S., and the issue is far more complex than it seems at first.This is the definition of a silencer contained in U.S. Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Subsection 922:(24) The terms "Firearm Silencer" and "Firearm Muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.Further wording in the Code defines the silencer to be a firearm that must be serial-numbered and controlled. The use of a silencer in a crime can add penalties to the punishment for that crime, and the possession of an unregistered or unserial-numbered (i.e., homemade) silencer are both crimes by themselves.The law As an American citizen, you may request permission from the federal government to own a silencer. Unlike the right to own firearms, however, owning a silencer is not a right guaranteed under the Constitution. The various states and local municipalities can refuse to agree to your application, leaving you with no recourse. My research at the time I wrote this article turned up the following 36 states that permit the private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI and WY. However, just because the STATE allows ownership is no guarantee that the local authorities will agree.You apply for permission to purchase and own a silencer on ATF Form 4. This is submitted to the National Firearms Act branch of BATF in duplicate, along with two sets of fingerprints from your local police station, two passport photos and a check for $200. Your local chief of police or equivalent law enforcement official is requested to answer two questions on Form 4. If he objects, he does not have to answer the questions and you don't get the silencer - that simple. If there is an appeal process, I was unable to find it.If you are fortunate enough to get a silencer purchase approved, as I was, then that silencer is yours to use legally for the rest of your life.Pilot screw-on silencer from Advanced Armament, Inc., is one of the most effective separate .22 rimfire silencers on the market. It drops the sound of a .22 rifle by 41dB.With the right adapter, the silencer can be attached to almost any .22. This Ruger Mark II pistol is quieter than a Crosman Mark II when the silencer is on.SO WHAT? We're talking about airguns here!Yes we are, and most airgunners know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has jurisdiction over firearms ONLY. In fact, U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. Not only do the federal firearms laws NOT apply to airguns, they CANNOT be applied by law! But that doesn't get us out of the woods.However...IF you have an airgun silencer, and IF it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm - that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law. However, in the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it is also necessary to prove intent, as in you intended to use the silencer in your possession on a firearm. Therein lies the problem.At this point, I will cut directly to the chase. When you are tried for owning an illegal silencer, the federal government will vigorously prosecute their case against you. A court case uses a lot of resources, and they don't like to lose. The decision usually comes down to the judge after both sides have presented their case. You probably know that there are some judges who see their duty as interpreting the law, and there are other activist judges who see their duty as rectifying the current social situation - "putting things right," as it were. If you happen to draw the latter kind of judge, the outcome could be devastating. Even if you do happen to win, the time, money and heartache of preparing for a trial isn't pleasant for most people.Originally, silencers were for personal comfort and courtesy. This is how Europeans view them today, but most Europeans do not own firearms.Image used with permission from FirearmSilencers.com. When it comes to the question of airgun silencers, I have a saying I live by, "I don't want to learn the law while sitting at the defendant's table." Now, I happen to own a legal silencer, and whatever I do with it is my business as long as I obey the law. So, I can put my silencer on a loud airgun to make it quiet, if I want to. I can also sleep at night.What about a moderator?Shakespeare said it best, "A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet." Calling a silencer a moderator doesn't change the law. Better read that definition again.I think some people are confused about the difference between a moderator and a compensator. Moderator is the European term for silencer. A compensator is a device that also fits on the end of a barrel to do one or two things. One - it directs gasses away from the tail of a bullet or pellet, reducing any disturbance to its ballistic flight. Two - it directs gasses upward to counteract the tendency for the muzzle to flip up as the bullet leaves. A compensator exists to improve accuracy, while a moderator/silencer/suppressor/sound attenuation device (or any other name you can think of) is designed to quiet the report of a firearm.What about a silencer that's permanently attached to the airgun? That's okay, as long as it can't be removed with a carbide cutoff wheel, a hacksaw or an oxy-acetylene torch.REALLY?The truth is I don't know and neither does anyone else. I merely point out the absurdity of thinking that something can be permanent.What about a shrouded barrel?AirForce Airguns was the first to market the shrouded barrel with their popular Talon SS. The short SS barrel is housed inside the gun's longer frame, and an end cap strips away the loud noise of the shot as the pellet passes through. It clearly isn't a silencer because there is no device involved. However - a number of johnny-come-latelys are now marketing aftermarket barrel shrouds for guns that didn't have them originally. Could any of these "devices," for that is what they are, be attached to a firearm and diminish the report? I don't know and, as I said before, I don't intend finding out the hard way.Don't there have to be baffles inside for a device to be considered a silencer?No more than an airgun has to operate on air (i.e., CO2 guns). Baffles were in one of the very first firearm silencers patented by Hiram Maxim in 1909, but there is no mention of baffles in the legal definition. The reason everyone talks about baffles is because they are still an effective way to silence a firearm's report. But baffles are not required.Hiram Maxim's first silencer was pretty advanced for its time. The baffles were already there and formed to hold exploding gasses in compartments.Image used with permission from FirearmSilencers.com. So, what is a muzzlebrake?In the United States, a muzzlebrake is a swelling at the muzzle of an airgun. On breakbarrels, it often gives more leverage for cocking. On other types of airguns, it's decorative. On a .50 BMG, it's a type of compensator that helps reduce felt recoil. In the United Kingdom, it's a slang term for moderator, which is their term for a silencer.Yeah, but will the government really prosecute?You can play Russian roulette with your life if you want to, but leave me out of it. Yes, the government will prosecute. I know airgunners who have been arrested and had their silencers confiscated. If the government can make a case, have no doubt that they will. I know dealers who have been "visited" by representatives of BATFE because they were selling airgun silencers. You can joke about this with your buddies, but when you are seated facing two or three government agents and forced to have a long, in-depth conversation on a subject you know only a little about, things come into sharp focus.What about airguns that have real silencers built in from the factory?1. The TX200 Mk III has a shrouded barrel with baffles in the end of it. It is clearly a silencer. HOWEVER, it doesn't do that much for the TX200, because that airgun isn't loud to begin with, and if someone were to go to the trouble of cutting the shroud and baffles off a TX200 and mounting it on a firearm, they would be insane. Why spend over $500 to get materials you can buy at Home Depot for under $5? Why do WORK to get them, instead of just buying them as pieces? And, why work EVEN HARDER to lash them to a firearm, where they would be hopelessly inefficient because of how they were made and what they were originally designed to do? If the government hates you that much (to prosecute such an unworthy case), they can just hire a hit man and be done with it for far less time and effort.So, the TX200 with built-in silencer is okay!2. George Bigbore handmakes a .25 caliber air rifle that develops 120 foot-pounds of energy - the equivalent of a .22 Long Rifle cartridge. George is a rugged individualist who talks louder when he's disagreed with. He likes "living off the grid," though he would be surprised to learn that his lifestyle attracts even more attention and has generated a thick FBI file. George makes and sells a dozen air rifles each year. Some of them have parts that could be removed and put on a firearm to diminish its report. BATFE agents have started their own file on George, but he is such a minnow that they don't even toss him into the pan when frying a bigger fish. Time is on their side, though, and one day old George may cross the line far enough that the government decides to send a message to the other 437 known makers of "fringe" silencers. With their thick file, plus whatever George just did to put himself over the top, it's showtime!Your custom high-power super-silent .25 caliber air rifle made by George Bigbore may have an unregistered silencer on it. If George goes down, he may take you with him. Then you can listen to him complain loudly for hours that the government had it in for him, as you both mop the floors of cellblock B.Why doesn't somebody write to the head of BATFE and request that they make a ruling about airgun silencers?It's been done - MANY times. The BATFE has no more authority over airguns than the government of Australia has over the United States. Airguns are outside the scope of the Bureau's charter, so they cannot issue any kind of statement about them. Silencers, on the other hand, are their bread and butter. So, if a device can be REMOVED from an airgun and ATTACHED to a portable firearm and diminish its report, that device is then legally defined as a silencer. If that silencer has no serial number, it becomes a firearm without a serial number - the possession of which is a criminal offense. If you made it, you could be found guilty of manufacturing a firearm without a license - another criminal offense. If the judge decides that your legal ownership of a .22 rimfire rifle constitutes the intent to attach your illegal silencer to a firearm, you could lose everything you own and go to prison.I can't sum this up any better than to say I've been summing it up all along. The airgun silencer issue is complex, convoluted and anything but clear. If someone tries to convince you otherwise, don't listen to another word they say.My thanks to Bob the gunman for the use of his graphics with this article. Bob owns FirearmSilencers.com, a website dedicated to educating people about silencers.

#18 THE KNOT

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Posted 04 May 2008 - 04:22 AM

Posted Image I have the varmint hunter and it's knot that loud and very light to hold 5lbs give or take and with the gamo hunter domed pellets it's a heat seeking missle launcher at 30 yrd's if you enlrge the pic you will see why i love this gun .The trigger is garbage but mines out for a tune up new spring and trigger now , when it retuns i will only shoot the gamo hunters no breaking the sound barrier and flat at 30 to 40 yards where you put it it hit's. I think you will like it nobody knows when i fire the VH around my house and the whisper should be quieter sorry i can't say that for my disco now theres a little pop




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