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#31 DesertDog

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:44 AM

So I guess what you all are saying is that Class III weapons should be ONLY for LEO and Military because someone MIGHT do something bad with them? Couldnt the same be said with guns in general? I guess I see how CA politicos have stripped you all of most of your gun rights. One thing here one thing there, and bamm, no more guns for CA. The question I have for some of you is this..."Can man govern himself?"Also a point to remeber is this, One who gives up liberty for security will end up with neither.

#32 CA Desert Dog

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:59 PM

I guess my main beef is that most laws are passed on a common denominator basis. If some jackalope does something really stupid and illegal, the hack politicians rush to pass a law that restricts everybody from owning what some irresponsible jerk misuses. I am not OK with that. I believe that if a responsible individual wants an AR accessory that will allow him to jam through a 30-round magazine, so be it. A few magazines later, his overheated barrel won't be worth much in the accuracy department. But, that is his individual decision. As long as he acts responsible while deploying that accessory, go for it. I am tired of being punished and/or restricted for the irresponsible acts of stupid people. However, freedom goes hand-in-hand with responsibility. If an individual misuses that freedom, “he” should pay a price for it. Not the rest of us law-abiding citizens.I feel like CA gun owners have been much too passive regarding their rights being incrementally taken away. It’s the old “boil a frog” story. Slowly but surely, CA is passing more and more (unconstitutional…in my personal opinion) restrictive rules and regulations and the passive gun owners just stand by and let it happen. Gays comprise a very small percentage of the nation’s population, but they sure make a lot of noise. Gun owners could be speaking out a lot more but the silence is, for the most part, deafening.My God given freedoms are very important to me and I should be able to lawfully defend my family and property against the evil that seems to prevail these days. OK, I better get off my soap box now and shut up.
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#33 DesertDog

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:21 PM

I think its cool we can all state our opinions and ideas in a forum like this. I like to know what others are thinking/feel and why they feel that way. I learn something new all the time.I grew up in CenCal but in 96 I moved to Vegas. I was in heaven, got my first AK, AR15 and even got my CCW. I was amazed at how good NV was as far as, at that time, jobs, and was very pro-individual rights/responsabilites. Back then pot was a felony, period, zero tolerance. I have a place with my girlfriend, soon to be wife, in Turlock so I spend a lot of time there as well as Vegas. I love the CA that is the beaches and mountains and all the green. I love the desert too. But I have a hard time with the CA that is the CHP out for money on the Hiways. Case in point my step-daughter got pulled over for no front plate and was ticketed, but I see the CHP pass folks on the side of the road broken down. So dont give me that safety crap, those guys are out for $$, Uncle Brown's lil hookers on the stroll making him that money. Also the silly AR gun laws that CA has, whats the diff between a mini-14 and a AR15? Nothing! they both have the ability to shoot .223. The high taxes and anti-business govt. CA needs voters to stand up to these politicos. Quit trying to have the govt do everything for them, incuding saving the people from themselves. CA could be tougher on crime too, close the revolving doors on the jails/prisons. Fry the violent ones, instead of them dying in prison of old age. My frustration is that I like CA, but hate the way its run and the thought process that the govt is here to take care of everyone.

#34 Bisley

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:08 PM

So I guess what you all are saying is that Class III weapons should be ONLY for LEO and Military because someone MIGHT do something bad with them? Couldnt the same be said with guns in general? I guess I see how CA politicos have stripped you all of most of your gun rights. One thing here one thing there, and bamm, no more guns for CA. The question I have for some of you is this..."Can man govern himself?"Also a point to remeber is this, One who gives up liberty for security will end up with neither.

No! Class III weapons do not have to be just for LEO or Military. But if you are going to sit there and tell me that a full auto weapon is not much different than a semi-auto, you are lying to yourself, me, and everyone else here. We have to be absolutely honest here if we are going to discuss this cordially.Class III weapons are like a race bike, they can both get away from you very easily and hurt not only yourself, but more importantly, OTHERS. We've all seen videos of jacka$$e$ handing a new shooter or a young petite, lady a hand cannon. The results are not pretty. And that is just firing one round mind you. Imagine many rounds in a split second! Do you not think some jacka$$ would do the same with a Class III weapon? If you think they wouldn't, you are lying to no one but yourself. I DO NOT want to be on the range (or anywhere for that matter) when it happens. Natural reaction is to clasp and hold when we panic, which would continue to fire anywhere the muzzle is pointed. And who knows where that would be when they panic?So what do we do?Much like a motorcycle or semi truck, we attend a class to teach the world what they do and how easily they can get away from us. We also cite the owner of such said weapon if they are caught letting someone else use it that is not certified (just like a car). You can preach all you want about laws and restrictions, but, while no firearm should be considered a toy, a Class III weapon is not only no toy, IT IS NO TOY, NO JOKE, AND NOT A TOOL TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY!I do not advocate full government control and restriction, but some things do just make plain sense. And not letting every yahoo that walks the street own Class III weapons with no training or experience is one of those things that just plain makes sense. I don't mind if you disagree, but I ask you to do one thing for me, and do it honestly. Tomorrow, all day while you're out and about, look at everyone you see walking around. Then, ask yourself if you would feel comfortable knowing that they all could possess Class III weapons. Then think about some of the real "winners" you used to see here in CA and tell me how you would feel knowing they were coming to NV to shoot Class III weapons for a week on vacation..............Change your mind yet?

#35 DesertDog

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:39 PM

BiselySemi-auto is not that deadly? Single shot guns are deadly, sniper rifles are really deadly in the right shooters hands, and they have a cyclic rate of what? So should you ban "sniper rifles" too. All guns are equally deadly if misused. I dont know how much more dead one could get. I do see folks of all sizes and nationalities and even experiance levels, shooting class III guns all the time in NV, the place is called The Gun Store and if you have a crap load of money you too can shoot a class III gun on a range. NO ONE HAS BEEN KILLED by this practice. ALL guns should be handled in a SAFE manner, does not matter if its a pellet gun or a full auto. Who panics shooting a class III gun? I have seen a ton of folks shooting class III guns and not one has freaked out. I have been around a lot of class III guns, and I can understand if you have not how you could think the worst of them. The media and movies have programmed you all how crazy they can be (tons of firearms abuse on the big screen and TV). But realitiy is different.Do you know that in NV (and some other states), we can own class III guns and you DO NOT have to take any class to do so, just the proper ATF paperwork and a background check. Again, legally owned class III guns have not been used for illegal purposes or folks freaked out using them and sprayed the crowd. NV and AZ both allow class III guns. Do you think for a second that if these guns cause all this carnage you are saying they could cause that the libs wouldnt be all over this? The media would be on it like flys on you know what. I just can not see making laws that ban something like class III guns, or any guns for that matter from LAW ABIDING folks, because they MIGHT do something bad with them. Again this could be said of ALL guns. I think you should turn your guns in, bcause you might do something wrong someday. Just Kidding. I say let lawfull folks have them, and IF they mess up, then come down on them. But CA has this backwards, strip folks of these things and let the criminals run amuck. its the libs way I guess. Makes no sense to me though. Also, who is going to make the call as to who can and cant have guns, by your idea of the situation? You? Some commitee? What if that is applied to your guns? What if they say you, the general public, are too dumb or incompetent to own guns? This is how they got your AR's. Im for rights of individuals, and not stripping rights from folks because they MIGHT do something bad. I guess if I lived in LA I might be sour on humanity, but I do for the most part think our gun culture is a pretty good bunch of folks.I really like this thread, I think its great to have these open debates, its what makes our country the best! I am enjoying this topic and I hope you are too. Something is lost in the text sometimes, and I never want you to think I am being disrespectful of your point of view, or anyone elses for that matter. It's your right to think what you want. Heck I look forward to this thread....lol.Bisley its kind of cool, Im sort of getting to know you.

#36 Bisley

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:27 PM

I really like this thread, I think its great to have these open debates, its what makes our country the best! I am enjoying this topic and I hope you are too. Something is lost in the text sometimes, and I never want you to think I am being disrespectful of your point of view, or anyone elses for that matter. It's your right to think what you want. Heck I look forward to this thread....lol.Bisley its kind of cool, Im sort of getting to know you.

Could not agree more! :good: . Stimulating conversation always peaks my interest.I do think you misunderstood what I meant about semi-autos being dangerous. Yes, all guns can be dangerous. I meant imagine a newbie with a full auto. They aren't expecting the muzzle to keep rising, as they panic they clinch tighter never releasing the trigger, the gun keeps rising, they panic, turn, and somebody gets hit. I do not want that somebody to be me. Yes, I have fired a Class III weapon (friend of the family worked S.W.A.T) and it can be intimidating the first time. Having someone who has never done it try it, they can not anticipate what it will be like the first time, and who knows what will happen? As far as the question "Who panics?". Hell, I've seen people panic over missing an offramp or a signal turning yellow! Some people can't deal with sudden incidents.I give all these instances for the simple fact that: If you give one person the right to own them, everybody, including the "slow" ones have that right also. And that spells a disaster. Most people shouldn't even be allowed to drive these days let alone own Class III weapons.!I do realize what you are saying about legally owned ones never being used in crimes. I do not doubt that for a minute. You have to remember, I do not think they should ban them entirely, just train them like you would for a vehicle or heavy equipment. I do not think that is asking too much. Again I ask the same question: Would you feel comfortable with 21 year old person walking out of the DMV after just passing their test, buying a semi truck and pulling a 53 foot trailer with gasoline in it around your neighborhood. Gasoline is legal to purchase. Semi trucks and trailers are legal to purchase. But you CAN NOT USE THEM WITHOUT BEING CERTIFIED OR TRAINED. Trained for the vehicle, trained for the liquid, and trained for the Haz-mat. Is that wrong also. Doesn't that infringe upon our rights to drive? Can you see what I'm getting at? I don't want anything banned, I just think training for an unordinary weapon is not too much to ask. Hell, even the military doesn't just hand our soldiers a Class III weapon without teaching and training them!!! And these are professional soldiers!I have to admit though, my grandfather was Chief Detective in the city I live in now. My uncle is currently a State Trooper for the state of Colorado. My best friend/hunting partner is a prosecutor for the state. This all means I see and hear the worst of people. It may have something to do with I do not have much faith in the average person on the street. I am actually glad to see you do still have some faith in the common man. But I would hate to see that faith in them get yourself, myself, or anyone else hurt. If you heard just some of the stories, that trust would be a thing of the past :welcomeani: .Just something more to chew on. Look forward to hearing back. Hope you've cooled down in Vegas, it was 114 when I passed through there earlier this week. OUCH!

#37 DesertDog

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 08:48 AM

OK here's my points in a nutshell,A. ALL guns should be treated in a safe manner and ALL gun safety rules should be taught and practiced by all.B. Guns should not be regulated by looks, mode of fire, or accesories on the gun. C. It is the responsability of the gun owner to get proper training for the safe handling of a firearm, not the govt or the state forcing them to do so. D. If a person messes up and breaks the law, come down on that person with fines or jail. Extra penalites for repeat offenders and Death Penalties for Violent offenders/crimes of child molestation. And the govt and state shall understand and obey, ...."Shall not be infringed." It does not say "Shall not be infringed, but if we think you are "slow" or "weak", or "dumb" then this doesnt apply to you." In this country, all men are created equal. The terms "weak" "slow" and "dumb" are relative terms. Someone has to determine what these terms are, you may be smart to your 3rd grader but you may be dumb to your highschooler. This way of governing is flawed, and these are traps that men fall into losing all fredoms. Look at CA gun laws, your politicos think none of you can own AR's or Hi-cap mags and that your are too "slow" to own them, you might hurt yourself and others. How does that feel when your govt makes those calls for you?We live in AMERICA, and everyone, including "Slow" people have the same rights and fredoms as us "smart" folks. I worked for years in a funeral home in Vegas, I have seen the best in folks and the extreme worst in folks. I have seen the aftermath of some horrid things, but I still have faith in man. I have too, I live in a free country......and I want it to stay free, and the basis for that fredom is the God given right to self defense.

#38 Bisley

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 10:47 AM

B. Guns should not be regulated by looks, mode of fire, or accesories on the gun. In this country, all men are created equal.

So according to your logic, we should all be able to walk down the street with a full auto M-16, with a grenade launcher attached, slung across our backs with the rifle loaded and a grenade in the launcher to boot. How can you not see this as a problem?! You are basically saying we need no laws in this country. Have you ever heard of a third world country?! Is that where you want to live? What makes a firearm so special over say an airplane. Do you think it's a good idea also to let anyone and everyone fly without training. Sure, it would be the pilot's responsibility to get trained and fly, but that sure as Hell wouldn't make me feel any safer!And I'm sorry, but all men are created equal. Sounds good on paper, but we live in a REAL WORLD. If you want to be considered of the same breed as a Charles Manson, a Ted Bundy, or say a Barack Obama, that is your God given right, just do not treat me as equal to them!!!Again I ask you to answer one simple question for me. Why is it that LEO and our Troops have to be trained before being issued these types of weapons, but an ordinary person shouldn't? Remember that even Cops who have been handling their own firearms for years have to trained before they are allowed to be issued a Class III weapon. And they will be carrying them on the same streets you would. Even the Boys that are sworn to protect our freedoms or the Boys sworn to protect us from our society have regulations. We are not above them are we? This question needs to be answered/addressed before any other.I know we all are tired of certain "senseless" laws, and there are a bunch, but we do need some. Sure, Class III weapons can be fun to onw, but so are tigers, RPG's, and A-bombs. But where do you draw a line? And the worst part is, I'm not saying ban them, just teach people to use them properly before turning them loose. And while I do not like laws and restrictions either, I have seen a "department" gun store sell a 5 foot nothing 90 pound young lady a 2' .357 because she wanted more "power than a .38" in case "her ex-boyfriend shows up". I am not afraid to say that kind of stuff does scare the Hell out of me and make me wonder if we all shouldn't have take a one time class to show we know how to handle firearms. Not saying do it every time we buy one, but once on the first one to teach us about them and all the different types of actions. Believe it or not, that wouldn't offend me. I would actually sleep easier knowing that all these people who buy them without having even handled them at least knew something about them. But, again, I think education is a very, very, important thing on every level.




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