rude robert

IDAHO TRIP

52 posts in this topic

I'd ask myself this question..........Would I hunt grizzly bears with a 30-30? If you look at the charts you will see that the 44 mag doesn't have the power of a 30-30.........
Energy charts don't mean much when it comes to bone breaking power. A 22-250 will list as having more foot ponds of energy than a 45-70 but that doesn't make it a better bear stopper. Big heavy bullets will get the job done regaurdless of what papper ballistics say. I convinced a buddy of this when he claimed that a 180gr partition bullet from his 30-06 would penetrate deeper than anything I could fire from my .44 mag. We both shot into a rolled up canvas fire hose (pretty tough stuff) at 50 yards and a 300gr federal cast-core from my wheel gun outpenetrated his beloved 180gr '06 partition load.

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Bro it depends on what your shooting at. Next get your self a piece of 1/4" inch plate steel. 44 Mag will dent it. 30-06 will completely pierce it at 400+ yards

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Bro it depends on what your shooting at. Next get your self a piece of 1/4" inch plate steel. 44 Mag will dent it. 30-06 will completely pierce it at 400+ yards
Good thing bears don't wear 1/4" steel plate. :) Steel is defeated by velocity more than foot pounds of energy. In some of P.O Ackleys tests he found that a .220 swift will penetrate actual 1/4 military armor when a 270 would leave a smudge of lead and an '06 AP round will only put a ding in it. Of all my guns, my 25-06 with 117gr bullets @ 300fps would make the deepest crater in my 1" thick swinging target. On the otherhand, a 500gr slug at around 1800 fps from my 45-110 sharps knocks over the 80 pound target like a freight train.

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:) I was there, watched it happen, smoking ricochet & all...

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I still will agree with clampdaddy.We were talking about handgun hunting.Got a little "off track".As, we are entitled to our opinions.I still like the 30-06.I've loaded hundreds of rounds for mine,when I had it.And,I still would trust my cast bullets in 44 mag or 45 Colt.My cast are 320gr JDJ-44 mag,255gr,and RCBS 270gr SAA-45 Colt.These really don't need to be driven to "magnum" velocities to be effective.The 454 Casull rounds are loaded to the "factory equivalent",as shown in the reloading sheet,provided by Freedom Arms.IF we had the same black/brown bears here,as in Alaska,then my choice would be my F.A model 83.260gr or the 300gr.Those are "soft point".The exposed lead is hard.DFG hasn't put out a bulletin about the animals with body armor.The 240gr (presume HPs) on the bear,opened up too soon.So,no penetration.The 44 magnum still can bequite effective,IF the correct ammo is used.The Speer 270gr more than likely,would have been effective.IF those bullets were cast,hopefully,a heavier bullet,then yes,there would have been penetration.

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Hey Rude Robert,I would go with the speer 300 gr. sp. or bear tooth bullets, 300 gr. or bigger. Alot of alaska hunters prefer .44mag because you can get back on target a hole lot quicker for follow up shots. The big mags do hit alot harder(like the 454, 460. 500) but recoil is so ferce, it super hard to get back on target with follow up shots. If you reload your own you can crimp bullet in rear cannelure and charge 22.5 gr.s of h110 with mag primer for the speer 300gr. that should punch a .430 hole right through that big critter!...I hope this helps ya.

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woodsman would that be okay to shoot in the s and wesson??? someday id like to get a ruger, but the smith is lighter and a bit easier to carry over long distance

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I don't think the S&W cylinder is long enough to use the lower crimping grove. I believe it is there for heating up the Redhawk. I've actually seen articles in magazines regaurding those long loaded .44 mag cartridges in the Redhawks and some gunwriters have started calling those loads the 11.2mm magnum.

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lol i just dont want to blow up the smith, the reloading manual which was wrapped in plastic used a ruger with its bullet and powder charges so i know being lighter then the ruger the smith cant be loaded the same way robert

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woodsman would that be okay to shoot in the s and wesson??? someday id like to get a ruger, but the smith is lighter and a bit easier to carry over long distance
Rude Rob, sorry I was thinking you had ruger redhawk...for the S&W go less, 19grs. seat at 2nd crimp.i have shot that full house load in my S&W a few times but went lighter because of there reputation of not holding up to the heavy reloading.I use the newer redhawk as my carry/ back-up gun, it has 4in. barrel in .44mag.not as light as S&W but close...and I can use full house loads and not worry about the gun comming apart.Scott

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Have you looked at Barnes bullets?http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/pistol/I hear that they don’t start expanding until they meet with fluid. They will penetrate bone (skull) or a small tree limb with out opening up and when they hit soft tissue, they flower.Hunters in Africa have been using solids for many years on dangerous game.I myself would take my AR10 with a 25 round mag. If I got to see the bear before he started to charge, he would go down.For fishing, an ar15 platform with a .50 Baowulf upper with a 10 round magazine and 400 grain bullets would be a relatively compact and lightweight competent platform in an emergency.http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=2

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Yes i seen the barnes. I really hate to buy from them unless there isnt any other way. Like a lot of people in this forum, I think they basically screwed the hunter in california

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just curious, how did Barnes screw us ? If you're talking about the non lead condor thing I spoke to people at Barnes before it was legislated and they did not want the ban because they couldn't produce fast enough for demand plus everybody else would be in the copper bullet business.

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That's funny because if you watched the hearing where they spoke to F&G Barnes said just the opposite. They stated their bullets were even cheaper and had stockpiles of bullets.

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Quote"I believe the .357 would be better on fur ... and also better if the bear shoved it up, well never mind... LOL "What good is the fur if your not here to see it. Buy The 44 with a 7 1/2 in barrel. Good to 100 if you practice. Load it it 180 JHP.It may not punch through steel like the 06, but when that 180 slug opens to the size of a quarter with razor edges, it will perform. They open up and cause much more internal damage than a 300 grain bullet poking a nonlethal hole in the critter while he is gnawing on you. I had an encounter at 20 ft. My buddy was glad I had the combo I did. It save his life. He was using the 300 grainer.They will piss the bear off. This bear took three hits of the 300 gr and two hits of 180. Upon autopsie it was clear which bullet worked.Toss the 300'sJust my :two-cents:

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Well that's interesting what kind of bear ? Were those 300 gr cast bullets? Hornady makes 300gr XTP bullets.

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You had me there for a minute. They were jacketed 300 grain flat nose I do believe. The 180's HP opened up.That's what made the difference. I hit a coyote with the 180 and that was impressive also. I would not want to see someone in the situation I was in and get mauled. Makes my sphincter pucker just thinking about that one. We had no time to think about it, just reacted and luck was on our side that day.

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Looks like Sierra might be the maker of that bullet. Tell us some more details? How far was it when the first shot was fired? Black bear right? Read reports of guides who claim to have seen hundreds of bears shot by hand guns and he swears by cast bullets. Others say no you need the shock of Jacketed bullets !

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+ 1 on the shotgun with slugs. The biggest bear I ever killed weighed 520 lbs gutted. This bear was killed on the ground in old growth manzanita. We dogged him for over 8 hours before I got close enough to shoot him. He was pissed and had killed some of our dogs. He charged me when I was watching the dogs fight him. When a bear is on the ground like this you have to sneak in and wait for a head shot. That is what I was doing when he charged. I shot him 5 times in the chest when he was comeing at me. They were all good shots. It took one in the head point blank to stop him. It scared the poop out of me. I was lucky I did not get chewed on. A chargeing bear is hard to hit in the head. I would still hunt with a 44 if I had hounds. Most black bears run when they smell or see a human. A griz is a whole different critter than a black bear. I would want a shotgun with slug's and buckshot if I had one of those after me.

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